AFCO vs BBR Racing's Heat Exchanger

[RickRoush03]

for a screen you can go to home depot and get something to put on the front of the HE, most crotch rocket guys do this b/c of the front wheel flinging rocks up. you'll spend like $1.00 for some chicken wire mesh or whatever its called.

i can't fully speak for the GT500, but when i had a HE made for my 03 S3, the HE is exactly the same on the 01-04 S3 and the 03-04 cobra and i would almost assume its the same for the newer S3, gt500, edlebrock system, etc.

[FELNBLU]

Go with the Ford Fan screen.
It matches the other screens and installs easily.
The cheapest and easiest mod I have done.

[NastyStang113]

Go with the Ford Fan screen.
It matches the other screens and installs easily.
The cheapest and easiest mod I have done.

I wouldn't say easiest mod if you've got an AFCO heat exchanger. Granted, pulling the front bumper off is pretty easy ... I was looking forward to doing it going into the project thinking I was only going to spend 15 minutes putting it on.

[AutoXRacer]

Is it because of the thickness of the upgraded heat exchanger you now have no room to work with? Should this grill mod be done before upgrading the heat exchanger?

[NastyStang113]

Is it because of the thickness of the upgraded heat exchanger you now have no room to work with? Should this grill mod be done before upgrading the heat exchanger?

Yes it's because of the thickness. I'd do it at the same time. It'll be much easier.

[alexsc2]

chuckr ; stage 3 motorsports has lower grille kits for $79-$89 depending if you want satin or black chrome. I bought satin; it comes with all 5 screens on the lower fascia so it will match . just snaps in with clips pretty easy as a do it yourself thing in 20 min. good luck .

[DiMora]

I'm going to revive this dead horse.

I'm looking at heat exchanger upgrades (planning future mods).

Isn't total surface area the key factor in how effective the exchanger is? I would think it is.

I had this teacher in High School - Byron Anderson...we called his class "Byrophysics".

Well Mr. Anderson used to give us problems such as this one and make us develop a theory based on science, and then we would test it.

What makes the AFCO better? I know it is "dual pass" vs. the BBR/Steeda's "single pass"...but all the "dual pass" is is a single pass that is stretched out into top and bottom layers, which makes your coolant enter the heat exchanger on one end, take a 90 degree turn, and then exit on the same side it entered...requiring you to use twin 90 degree elbow rigs to get your hoses pointed back in the right direction.

Another way to envision the Steeda / BBR dual pass unit is if you were to "split it in two" it is really two long skinny units compared to Steeda's single pass one big fat unit.

What I want to know is what is the total radiator surface area on each one, and how much fluid does each one hold? To me, that will determine the winner...not anecdotal opinions from owners with no scientific basis.

I'd also like to see a shootout...same pump (The Bosch model used on our cars), same inlet temp on the feed coolant, the same test fan placed in front of each one at a fixed distance, and a temp probe in the coolant outlet to determine the undisputed champion of the world vs. brochure babble.

Let's do some analysis with the available numbers:

Let's talk TOTAL volume:

The Steeda is 26" wide x 6" tall x 4' thick - so that is 624 cubic inches total volume of fluid.

The AFCO is 26.5" x 9" x 2" thick - so that is 477 cubic inches.

WINNER: Steeda

Front face area (radiator "core" surface only)

Steeda: 21.5" x 4.902" so that is 105.39" total radiator surface area.

AFCO: 22.5" x 9" = 202.5"

WINNER: AFCO

TOTAL core surface area:

Steeda: 21.5" x 4.902" x 4" = 421.5"

Afco: 22.5" x 9" x 2" = 405"

WINNER: Steeda

"Tank" area (Non-core fluid volume):

Steeda: Two tanks, one on each end, 2.25" x 6" x 4" = 54" each, total 108" volume.

Afco: Two tanks, one on each end, 9" x 2" x 2" =36" each, 72" total volume.

WINNER: Steeda

So...

The Steeda holds 30% more fluid than the Afco
The Steeda has 4% more core surface area than the Afco
The Steeda has 50% more tank area than the Afco

The Afco has the hose inlets and outlets in the wrong location, and the 90 degree outlet on the afco is pointed 180 degrees in the wrong direction.

The Steeda has the inlets and outlets in the correct orientation for our cars.

Lastly, I *assumed* the 9" height on the AFCO is all core...whereas I penalized the Steeda core height (Steeda says it is 6" tall, so I calculated core height is 4.902"). If AFCO's core height is actuall 9" MINUS the metal protective strip on the top and bottom, then Steeda has an even bigger dominance.

So tell me why the Afco is better?

I don't own either one, just looking for facts before I buy one.

[AutoXRacer]

I had already settled on the Steeda due to the ease and exact same install as the Roush OEM piece...

But thanks for that analysis DiMora, you just solidified my decision...

[NastyStang113]

BBR and Steeda is the same thing so I don't think your dimensions are right. As far as one being better, I think it's pretty safe to say the AFCO is better when you have someone from BBR saying that the BBR and Steeda are the same heat exchangers and the AFCO works better. Good luck with whatever you pick.

[DiMora]

BBR and Steeda is the same thing so I don't think your dimensions are right.

Forget BBR...I screwed up in my post. I meant AFCO vs. BBR/Steeda. I had time to still edit, so I fixed it.

[DiMora]

BBR and Steeda is the same thing so I don't think your dimensions are right. As far as one being better, I think it's pretty safe to say the AFCO is better when you have someone from BBR saying that the BBR and Steeda are the same heat exchangers and the AFCO works better. Good luck with whatever you pick.

Can they back that up with facts, like a test? Because the available numbers don't support that.

[NastyStang113]

Considering John is in here, maybe he can give you his opinion.

[DiMora]

Steeda / BBR:



BBR:



Afco:



Now this is sweet...I wonder if this is just an AFCO with fans added to it?

It is at BBR:

[AutoXRacer]

Would the fans be that beneficial or a hindrance to airflow once you're moving?

[DiMora]

Would the fans be that beneficial or a hindrance to airflow once you're moving?

They are puller fans (on the back-side)...so it shouldn't be an issue I would think.

Just eye-balling it, it looks like an Afco.

At low speeds, or between runs at the strip, that would be sweet to have the fan-equipped Afco setup. Despite the total surface area of the Afco being less, if you are constantly sucking air through there I would think that would be a huge advantage vs. the Steeda - unless you added fans to the Steeda, but remember it is so thick (4") that there may not be room to add fans to the Steeda.

Hmmmmmmm.

That fan-equipped jobber is $750.

[AutoXRacer]

Is that $750 with the heat exchanger or just the fans setup alone...?

[DiMora]

Is that $750 with the heat exchanger or just the fans setup alone...?

It is the whole banana...heat exchanger plus fans already attached.

Linky-link:

Shelby 2007-2010 GT500 Dual Pass Heat Exchanger w/ Dual Puller Fans



FWIW...Blw-by claims that last unit is made by C&R.

So the question is, does C&R make the AFCO units?

Or does AFCO make them for C&R.

I hate all this cross-branding.

If we could get to the original manufacturer you might be able to save some bucks. I really like the idea of the AFCO design with the twin fans. I live in Atlanta and it is stinking hot here...I can feel what a dog the car is when you've been sitting in traffic and it is hot out...

http://crracing.com/radiators/radiators.shtml

And the fans:

http://crracing.com/racing_performance/spal_fans.shtml

[DiMora]

OK...the plot thickens.

Looks like the C&R unit is also branded as a Shelby / Revan unit.

IT is a COMPETING design with the Afco. The C&R unit was developed first, and the Revan guys are claiming that AFCO copied their design.

The AFCO is being sold by VMP and lethal performance, as well as blow-by.

Looks like a possible shootout is coming soon (or at least a good fight):

C&R and AFCO Heat Exchanger Challenge - SVTPerformance

Oh...and Justin at VMP tuning has had AFCO add an extra inch (10" tall instead of 9") to their model and he sells it for $659:

http://www.vmptuning.com/store/index...353&parent=112

I'll have to marinate on all of this, but I am leaning toward a dual fan equipped unit for my upgrade.

I'll do the math later on Justin's VMP AFCO unit. That extra inch may trump the Steeda...and the fans would make it The Win.

Here it is. This looks like moto-porn:

[Avaldes]

My experience with fans on aircraft cooling systems is that they can work when the vehicle is still or moving slowly. Once you get up to speed they are useless, and can become a hinderance at higher speeds.

The "goodness" of a heat exchanger can only be measured if you have real data, either from the manufacturer or from testing. Things like fin spacing, fin geometry, coolant flow rate, etc. all play an important role in the efficiency of a heat exchanger.

[DiMora]

My experience with fans on aircraft cooling systems is that they can work when the vehicle is still or moving slowly. Once you get up to speed they are useless, and can become a hinderance at higher speeds.

The "goodness" of a heat exchanger can only be measured if you have real data, either from the manufacturer or from testing. Things like fin spacing, fin geometry, coolant flow rate, etc. all play an important role in the efficiency of a heat exchanger.

Good point. And that is my point on all the pro-Afco stuff...everyone says it is great, but I haven't seen any test data.

I guess NASCAR and the FRPP race cars all use the C&R stuff, so that means something, because you know NASCAR tests the daylights out of stuff.