AutoXRacer's Detonation Issue... :(

[AutoXRacer]

OK... I guess I'll stick to that then...and see what happens...

Nasty, do you know when the next car show/VMP dyno is?

[spindlecone]

These posts are going nowhere, have become a lovefest

[AutoXRacer]

I know...

I filled up with a totally different brand and location of gas station... We'll see tomorrow if things are improved...

Hopefully its gone... If not, the next step will be the Brisk plugs...

The fuel mod will follow on the other post... I'm still leaning towards the dual pumps since I'll be needing them in the future anyways...

[NastyStang113]

OK... I guess I'll stick to that then...and see what happens...

Nasty, do you know when the next car show/VMP dyno is?

I'm pretty sure VMP will be at Silver Springs on Friday.

Did you install those Autolites? What did you gap them to? I'll buy them off of you as long as you don't run any race fuel in the car..

[AutoXRacer]

I'm pretty sure VMP will be at Silver Springs on Friday.

Did you install those Autolites? What did you gap them to? I'll buy them off of you as long as you don't run any race fuel in the car..

Yes, I installed them... I gapped them to between +0.032 and 0.034th... I gapped 3 of them (my first 3) to slightly less than 0.034.

So I would say they are all around 0.033 +/-0.001

[NastyStang113]

I'll shoot you a PM.

[AutoXRacer]

OK, this knock is really frustrating me!!!!

Here are the conditions where its happening:

3/4 or more throttle below 3,500 RPM on any gear for a brief moment until the engine starts pulling. I happens between the time your press the accelerator and the engine responds and speeds up. I get clear audible knock for that brief moment.

I can't imagine this is normal to the 4.6L engine. My tuner is not worried about it since it happens at the lower RPM range and its very brief. But my worry is that its cause be some mechanical characteristic (problem). At least thats my hunch...
I am still hung up on that by Roush leaving the stock GT plugs in my engine and me driving it for 28,500 miles must have cause some premature wear or damage.

I asked at several reputable Ford shops what their thoughts were on it. And all they said is that kncok usually just kills an engine instantly. That there is no progressive failure...

I find that hard to believe because on my previous car, 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 (first generation) had a lot of tuning issues. From factory the car knocked, although it was not audible, a scanner clearly picked it up. After 30,000 miles, the car started blowing out the dip stick, the dealer performed a leakdown test and found the engine to be worn out (rings were shot!!!)...needing the engine to be replaced.

I'm afraid this might be the case with me... I guess my next decision would be to take the car to the dealers and let them figure out whats going on. I should have not jumped the gun and assumed it was a tune issue from Roush like others have had. And just taken the car to the dealers. I guess I have to put the car back to stock...

Is there anyway Roush or the dealers would know whether the ECU was flashed or not? I was told the Ford ECUs don't track that. Anyway, I bet Roush has a mole somewhere around here biting on the chance to void someone's warranty like Mazda does...

Before I take this endeavor... Would my stock plugs (the ones Roush left in there that I drove for 28.5K miles) be a good indication of my engine's condition?
I can take really good close up picture of them. Anyone in here really good at reading plugs and identifying any probable causes/conditions?

Thanks...

[AutoXRacer]

Anyone know what would be more valuable:

-Leak-down Test?
-Video imagining of cylinders via borescope?

[Justin00Stang]

Several things....

I would agree that there is something different about your car, when I dynotuned the car it did not take nearly as much timing as the thousands of other blown 3Vs I have tuned.

Due to that, your car has more fuel and less timing than any of the other tunes I've done, I'm weary of continuing to take out more and more timing as it totally kills power.

Resolutions...

Take my advice, put in one piece plugs.

I also think you need to look at the PCV system, right now some oil is still getting into the engine.

And finally, I'm not totally sure your hearing knock. On the dyno we heard something like it at low RPM, I took out a few degrees on the last pull, and it seemed to go away, I'm not saying it could not come back but I've found high exhaust backpressure from stock cats makes for some very similar sounding noises when the exhaust pulses are far apart at low RPM.

On the stock plugs, it does not suprise me and I don't think it will cause any isssues to have them in there with the factory roush blower setup. The way they come out of roush the boost is very low and I don't believe they cause any problems.

A dealer won't do anything for you. If the car was stock they would just take timing out using the octane plug function in the VID block that can be enabled with the dealer tool, or by sending the PCM to roush. That is standard ford procedure for an engine that knocks/pings.

[AutoXRacer]

OK, before I do anything drastic, I'll wait for my plugs to come in, figure something out with my catch can, maybe get another one that has a breather instead of plumbing it into the intake, and I'll also wait for the aeroforce gauge so I can get a sensor indication of knock instead of leaving it to my ears (lol)...

I guess I'll go from there...

Thanks for the advise Justin... I don't mean to not follow what you've suggested, it's just frustrating me and I'm growing impatient while I wait for parts...

Hey, just putting it out there... Would you rule out a defunct cam phaser...?

[AutoXRacer]

OK so here are my stock (the ones Roush forgot to change out) plugs...

Driver side, 1 being the closest to the front of the car and 4 being closest to the firewall:

Plug 1


Plug 2


Plug 3


Plug 4

[AutoXRacer]

Passenger side, same numbering scheme; 1 closest to front of car and 4 closest to firewall.

Plug 1


Plug 2


Plug 3


Plug 4

[AutoXRacer]

Justin was right!!!! I inspected my catch can hoses/setup and I did find a wet intake/outlet hose...
Though I am not sure if its from when I let the catch can overflow (over 4oz of fluid)... I need to flush the catch can with carb cleaner and clean out the intake side hose.

As a test, I plugged the intake and actually replaced a plug Roush had installed that was loose and dry rotted (top side plug)!!



Then I just installed at the end of the intake/outlet hose a filter and breather filter to see if I get any oil...though for s true test I should have connected it back into the supercharger. But I'll run it like this for a few days to try to clean out the intake track.





I think ultimately I will do the Nasty breather mod or run an open catch can with a breather filter.

[redfire427]

Gerald,

I cannot really comment on the "look" of your plugs other than it appears they are not gapped properly. I do not see any distortion of the strap which is common when gapping these plugs. Now that you have the small blower pulley installed, I believe your plug gap should be in the .032" to .034" range. It appears that they are gapped at the stock amount. I doubt you can "read" the plugs to tell if your mixture is rich or lean as this process must be done under very strict conditions. I believe the engine must be run wide open for a prolonged period of time and then cut the ignition to preserve the "reading" much like they do in Nascar. Different application, but I believe this is the only accurate way to tell. I trust that the dyno-tune that Justin did will be your most accurate diagnostic tool.

As for the oil in your lines, I think it is just a case that your catch can was completely full and the oil had to go somewhere. Just make it a habit to drain it more often, say the first of each month. It's not like it is in a difficult location and a PIA to do.

[spindlecone]

Those plugs look like a lean fuel A/f mix, they should be a lgt chocolate brown color.JMO

[NastyStang113]

Those plugs look like a lean fuel A/f mix, they should be a lgt chocolate brown color.JMO

That's interesting..

[GrabberGuy34]

Hey AutoX, I cant believe all that oil in your catch can. I check my can after 5000 miles and there was maybe enough oil to fill one of those little cups that come with cough medicine. Does anyone know what is the normal or whats too much in a catch can that you should start worrying a bit??????

[AutoXRacer]

Hey AutoX, I cant believe all that oil in your catch can. I check my can after 5000 miles and there was maybe enough oil to fill one of those little cups that come with cough medicine. Does anyone know what is the normal or whats too much in a catch can that you should start worrying a bit??????

Thats why I'll be performing a leakdown test this weekend to see if I had bad rings giving excessive blow-by... Hopefully not.

[AutoXRacer]

Gerald,

I cannot really comment on the "look" of your plugs other than it appears they are not gapped properly. I do not see any distortion of the strap which is common when gapping these plugs. Now that you have the small blower pulley installed, I believe your plug gap should be in the .032" to .034" range. It appears that they are gapped at the stock amount. I doubt you can "read" the plugs to tell if your mixture is rich or lean as this process must be done under very strict conditions. I believe the engine must be run wide open for a prolonged period of time and then cut the ignition to preserve the "reading" much like they do in Nascar. Different application, but I believe this is the only accurate way to tell. I trust that the dyno-tune that Justin did will be your most accurate diagnostic tool.

Keep in mind though that these are the original plugs (stock GT) that were incorrectly left in the engine for 28,500 miles.

Just looking to see if there is anything that might jump out...

I remember my old 2008 Mazdaspeed plugs had metal flakes all over the ceramic portion...like spiked sprinkles. I guess that was a sigh of something bad going on.

I don't seem to see that with these...telling me that maybe my engine is OK.

Like I said, I'm planning to do a leak-down test and borescope inspection this weekend...hoping the weather cooperates and warms up a little...

Yes, I know, we FL are weak...

[redfire427]

Doing the tests you mentioned are interesting, but I think you might be mixing some things up. The oil you are getting in the separator is from the crank case, or, basically, inside the engine. The oil vapour is condensing after it passes through the PCV valve and into the separator. If your rings were worn, you would see a reduction in compression as well as blue smoke on start-up, and black deposits on the plugs. If the rings were worn badly, you would actually see your oil level on the dipstick drop during a normal oil change interval. Worn rings would have nothing to do with oil in the separator.