Required reading for 3v supercharged Mustangs

[Larry Moser]

I learned more from this article than all the other stuff on the net......including posts on this forum.




http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Commo...gtTechTips.pdf

[10Roush427r]

I don't know if it's just me but the link doesn't work.

[Beav]

It's a PDF file... you have to be able to open a PDF...

[DiMora]

No doubt there is some great stuff in there...I've read that document many times.

There is also some absolute idiocy in there...

My favorite idiotic excerpts are pertaining to cooling air after the supercharger not making power. If cooler post-supercharger air does not make power, then why run an intercooler at all? Think about it...cooler intercooler fluid makes cooler IAT's...which allows your car to run more timing...and also provides a cooler, more dense air charge into the cylinders...which makes more power. If cooler intercooler fluid did not make power, then hard-core racers would not install trunk-mount ice boxes, and hard-core custom tig-welded passenger seat intercooler boxes...and the Ford Racing CobraJet would not run a giant heat exchanger with ice-box and Mezeire 50 GPM pump. Like this:



and this:





My second favorite paragraph of idiocy is their they claim headers make no power. I personally have dyno charts to prove that they do...same timing...same AF ratio...same RWHP and more torque on 3 PSI less boost due to headers.

Those are my major beefs...overall it is a great article, but some of their claims I have personally "myth-busted" with data to back it up.

Some of their concepts, like the KB BAP and the cold air intake they have that sucks air from behind the bumper are absolutely brilliant.

[redfire427]

I read the entire article and I do see where you are coming from Shane. I had much the same reaction you did, but I thought about it a bit more and came to the conclusion of what I think they are trying to say. On the comment, "cooling air after the supercharger not making power", I think what they are trying to say is that if an engine is making lets say 500 horsepower under ideal dyno testing conditions, then lowering the intake temperature further will not make any more power. Conversely, if intake temperatures rise, you WILL lose power via the PCM retarding the timing. To prevent this, racers use set-ups like you posted above to keep premium power for as long as possible.

Carmen

[Pentalab]

I read the entire article and I do see where you are coming from Shane. I had much the same reaction you did, but I thought about it a bit more and came to the conclusion of what I think they are trying to say. On the comment, "cooling air after the supercharger not making power", I think what they are trying to say is that if an engine is making lets say 500 horsepower under ideal dyno testing conditions, then lowering the intake temperature further will not make any more power. Conversely, if intake temperatures rise, you WILL lose power via the PCM retarding the timing. To prevent this, racers use set-ups like you posted above to keep premium power for as long as possible.

Carmen

The mass airflow rate.. (weight of air) will not change, whether you heat it, or cool it. If you could devise some magical way to drop the iat's down to sub freezing, your boost will drop off. Justin, at VMP, per his tech notes, was playing around with a customers NON intercooled FRPP whipple setup. By not having an intercooler at all, you just removed one more restriction to airflow...and boost will actually increase. What really amazed him was, since no intercooler used, the IAT's are way up, and the hotter the air in the intake manifold is, the more it will expand, and the boost really goes way up ! Just like the pressure in a tire going way up, once it's really hot from track use.

I looked at both the FRPP NON intercooled whipple and also the K bell NON intercooled blowers last year. I was advised by several folks who own both not to buy them. They run way too hot.

K bells site is a hoot. Almost like they have an axe to grind. It reminds me of a chinese menu, same fonts, lol. He's correct though about a lot of the "CAI" set ups. Some are completely fubar that I have seen at car shows. Everything from sucking rain water in via the wheel well to .."how hot can we suck in the air". Take a look at the Pro charger CAI. Consist of a large cone type filter..which is then located in the top right hand corner of the eng bay ! They could not have picked a worse spot to locate it, sitting right above the drivers side exhaust manifold. The only place to get cold air is via the front upper grille.

Jimbo

[Pentalab]

I read the entire article and I do see where you are coming from Shane. I had much the same reaction you did, but I thought about it a bit more and came to the conclusion of what I think they are trying to say. On the comment, "cooling air after the supercharger not making power", I think what they are trying to say is that if an engine is making lets say 500 horsepower under ideal dyno testing conditions, then lowering the intake temperature further will not make any more power. Conversely, if intake temperatures rise, you WILL lose power via the PCM retarding the timing. To prevent this, racers use set-ups like you posted above to keep premium power for as long as possible.

Carmen

The mass airflow rate.. (weight of air) will not change, whether you heat it, or cool it..after the supercharger. If you could devise some magical way to drop the iat's down to sub freezing,post blower, your boost will drop off. Justin, at VMP, per his tech notes, was playing around with a customers NON intercooled FRPP whipple setup. By not having an intercooler at all, you just removed one more restriction to airflow...and boost will actually increase. What really amazed him was, since no intercooler used, the IAT's are way up, and the hotter the air in the intake manifold is, the more it will expand, and the boost really goes way up ! Just like the pressure in a tire going way up, once it's really hot from track use.

I looked at both the FRPP NON intercooled whipple and also the K bell NON intercooled blowers last year. I was advised by several folks who own both not to buy them. They run way too hot.

K bells site is a hoot. Almost like they have an axe to grind. It reminds me of a chinese menu, same fonts, lol. He's correct though about a lot of the "CAI" set ups. Some are completely fubar that I have seen at car shows. Everything from sucking rain water in via the wheel well to .."how hot can we suck in the air". Take a look at the Pro charger CAI. Consist of a large cone type filter..which is then located in the top right hand corner of the eng bay ! They could not have picked a worse spot to locate it, sitting right above the drivers side exhaust manifold. The only place to get cold air is via the front upper grille.

Jimbo

[DiMora]

To say it as simply as can possibly be stated...

Hot IAT's make the car pull timing - my car begins to pull timing at 120 degrees IAT.

More timing = more power at a given ambient air temp and humidity.

An intercooler / heat exchanger system keeps IAT's lower, IE less differential between ambient temp and IAT. You cannot cool less than ambient without ice, some sort of gas cooling, or A/C cooling such as a Killa Chilla setup.

One more thing...with my new AeroForce interceptor, I was seeing, when it is 80-85 degrees here in Atlanta, IAT's of 127-131 - so my car is pulling timing, costing me power.

I added a Canton battery box intercooler fluid tank, and now I am seeing IAT's of 125-129...so I have had an average improvement of roughly 2 degrees by increasing my fluid quantity. In the next few weeks I'll be adding a new heat exchanger and a Meziere pump, and I'll report back my results.

[SteveL]

The mass airflow rate.. (weight of air) will not change, whether you heat it, or cool it..after the supercharger.

It does change. Hot air is less dense and contains less oxygen. Cold air is just the opposite. Since the amount of air an engine will pump is fixed, you want to maximize the amount of oxygen and colder air will do that. If your engine pumps 1000 cfm at some rpm, you want to maximize the amount of oxygen contained in that 1000 cfm volume. Colder, more dense air will provide more oxygen than hotter air.

What really amazed him was, since no intercooler used, the IAT's are way up, and the hotter the air in the intake manifold is, the more it will expand, and the boost really goes way up !

And it won't make more horsepower either. What makes horsepower is burning fuel and to burn fuel you need oxygen. Forcing more but hotter, less dense air doesn't provide more oxygen than forcing less air that's cooler, more dense and contains more oxygen.

A non-intercooled supercharged engine will still make more horsepower than a non-supercharged one. Why? Because the supercharger will force 50% more air into the engine but, due to heating by compressing the air, the air will be 20% less dense (just to use some round numbers). Sure you lost 20% of your oxygen by the heating affect but you gained 50% more volume so you're still ahead.

Want to gain more? Recapture that lost 20% by cooling the air after the compressor and before it enters the engine. You won't get the entire 20% back but with a reasonable intercooler, you should get 15-18% of it back.

[Pentalab]

It does change. Hot air is less dense and contains less oxygen. Cold air is just the opposite. Since the amount of air an engine will pump is fixed, you want to maximize the amount of oxygen and colder air will do that. If your engine pumps 1000 cfm at some rpm, you want to maximize the amount of oxygen contained in that 1000 cfm volume. Colder, more dense air will provide more oxygen than hotter air.

The point K Bell was trying to get across is that it doesn't change..and here's why. You have XXX lbs of air coming in at a given rate, via the front grille. That's the difference between a mass airflow metering system and just reading cfm. XXX lbs of air has a fixed amount of O2 per lb. It will also have YYY cfm for a given temp. Now heat the XXX lbs of air via the SC.....and it becomes less dense. It also now has MORE cfm..(and boost will increase pre-intercooler). It also STILL weighs the same! Now if you cool the hotter air via the ultimate intercooler, say a freon based unit, the cfm will drop a bunch, the air will become more dense, the boost will drop off.... but the weight will still remain the same.

Take 10 lbs of air @ say 80 deg F via the grille, then heat it up to 200 deg F via the SC.... then cool it back down to 120 deg F via the intercooler, at no time does the weight of the air ever change. It's always 10 lbs. The mass airflow never changed (weight). You still have the same amount of O2 molecules.
K Bell could have worded it slightly better.

You are right with the rest of course. You can still only stuff XXX amount of cfm into the motor, regardless of temp, and colder is better, colder is more dense, and contains more O2 per cubic ft. Less problems with pre-detonation, so now you can run more timing = more power. Since its more dense per cubic ft, it also contains more O2 per cubic ft.....and now you can stuff more fuel in there as well... = even more power. But that concept only works if the air is dense to begin with at the outside ambient temp.

When I was 400 miles north, back in the 80's.... a bunch of the folks at work were hardcore snow mobilers. These guys are crazy of course, but they could all make way more power when the ambient temp was -40 deg F vs +32 deg F. That's a whopping 72 deg F difference. This was not much above seal level either.

Go up in an aircraft, and the outside temp might well be -60 deg F....but its still not dense, even though it's well below freezing. At higher altitudes, the air is less dense. You require more cfm to get the same weight of air. Hence the use of superchargers in aircraft. One would think the super cold air at high altitudes would more than offset the lower air density at higher altitudes..it doesn't. Your boost drops like a rock at higher altitudes. You need 20% more cfm in Denver (and also 20% more pressure) just to get the same weight of air as sea level. You need a 2.41 psi blower in Denver just to make the same hp as a NA motor at sea level. Both the SC + NA folks in denver lose out..esp in summer.

Jimbo

[Pentalab]

To say it as simply as can possibly be stated...

Hot IAT's make the car pull timing - my car begins to pull timing at 120 degrees IAT.

More timing = more power at a given ambient air temp and humidity.

An intercooler / heat exchanger system keeps IAT's lower, IE less differential between ambient temp and IAT. You cannot cool less than ambient without ice, some sort of gas cooling, or A/C cooling such as a Killa Chilla setup.

One more thing...with my new AeroForce interceptor, I was seeing, when it is 80-85 degrees here in Atlanta, IAT's of 127-131 - so my car is pulling timing, costing me power.

I added a Canton battery box intercooler fluid tank, and now I am seeing IAT's of 125-129...so I have had an average improvement of roughly 2 degrees by increasing my fluid quantity. In the next few weeks I'll be adding a new heat exchanger and a Meziere pump, and I'll report back my results.

I noticed some SC setups pull the timing when the IAT's hit 150 deg F,some are 130 f....and yours is 120 F. That parameter alone is all over the map. The now 125-129 deg F IAT's you are now seeing. Is this with the blower on. How many secs on the blower till the IAT's get that high. Will they go even higher. What I'm trying to get at is..... how many WOT's can you do, and for how long each, before IAT's skyrocket to unaceptable levels.
Ok,what do you see for IAT's when just cruising on the hwy, at 50-60 mph... in OD...blower off....and at the same 80-85 degs out. Are they much above ambient.

Once that new HE gets installed, along with your new pump, then the Canton reservoir container will really come into play. Did you manage a way to insulate the Canton container. That Aeroforce digital gauge is a godsend. Without it, nobody has a clue what's going on. I'm testing 3 of them wed afternoon, before the permanent install. So far so good. I think I still need a cable from the X3 box to the AFR control box..so I can datalog afr. The only way I see that it can be done is to temp remove the output cable from afr control box to aeroforce gauge #3's analog input.... then cable from the afr control box directly to the spare input on the X3. For now, I just want to make sure all 3 gauges work, before installing em into the SOS A pillar.
The game plan was to use gauge #3 to read AFR + IAT's at all times.

later... Jimbo

[walker2t]

jimbo, you sound like a scientist lol... what knowledge you have... love it and your politeness in explaining things...

[Pentalab]

jimbo, you sound like a scientist lol... what knowledge you have... love it and your politeness in explaining things...

No scientist by a long shot. I'm pretty good at maths. I worked for the telco for 34 yrs as a network tech. Part of the job was testing the diesel back up generators..and some maintenance. Some were V-16's with pistons the size of paint cans, used at big offices. The small ones at some cell sites- microwave sites were at elevated locations. We measured and logged the incoming air temps, then the air temps from output of the turbo..then again after the air to air intercooler. From time to time I had to deal with HVAC engineers (heating ventilation, air conditioning). Telco's are one of the few places that have AC running flat out in January, so the eq doesn't blow up from heat. I still design cooling systems for high power transmitters,and also stuff like the mating dummy loads used to test them. The dummy load problem is very similar to the intercooler-HE problems in a blower setup. In some cases, oil is used as the cooling medium, and in other cases, either distilled water, or destilled and deionized water is used. Then back to the same problems, how many GPM, and how big each radiator has to be..and how many CFM through the HE..to dump all the heat. Some of the big metal transmitter tubes are air cooled, and some are water cooled...and some are whats called vapour phase cooled. That last one, vapour phase cooling, they boil the water, and then recondense the steam..in a big loop. You get a huge release of energy when you go from 212 deg F water to 212 deg f steam. Its 20 x more eff vs plane water cooling at a lower temp. It was also used on several diesel engines we looked after. The latest craze is called multi phase cooling, which is a combo of water cooling then vapor phase cooling. It uses the advantages of both schemes. On another forum I'm on, they are having a battle and a half, (world wide forum) trying to figure out the most efficient method to either liquid cool or water cool the heatsinks used for solid state high power RF amplifiers..then dump the heat.

Everybody is having the same problems. The SC setup used by Roush is just 2 radiators back to back in a loop, with a reservoir bottle + pump. Sounds simple till you try and implement it in an automotive application. Those big diesels at work with the giant turbos. They can operate in full boost mode 24 hrs for days on end. 15 lbs of boost is normal on them. CFM is double that of NA mode. In some applications, cfm is tripled. BTW... the temp on the turbo output is typ 190 deg F.... and is down to 130 deg F..after it has passed through the air to air intercooler. Of course it helps when you have 25,000 cfm from the eng fan helping to cool the small air to air HE. The HE is usually stacked on top of the normal eng rad. On one diesel setup we had back in the 70's.... it used a turbo on the back end...and a SC on the front end.

If I don't like the IAT's on my 2010 M90 set up, I will try and stuff a 16" or 18" fan in there...and blow 950-1850 cfm through the roush HE. The HE on the 2010 M90 is big, 18" tall x 21" wide. Same 18x21 HE is also used on the Roush 2010-2013 tvs blowers. I would have to relocate the pump though. No big deal. Just replace it with a bigger one at the same time. I want to see what the aeroforce sez 1st though. Justin tells me that Roush pulls the timing when IAT hits 150 deg F. Roush also uses 29 deg of timing on the M90. Shrouding up the sides of the rads in the car would help a lot. Stock, the eng rad, AC rad, HE..all sitting in front of each other is a less than optimum setup for airflow.

Wayne, have you ordered those roush side splitters yet. You will kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

Jimbo

[DiMora]

Jimbo...

I don't disagree with anything you have said regarding massflow. And your statements regarding aircraft are spot-on - that is what I do for a living. In the flight levels (18-000 to 43,000 on my jet) I typically see -35 to -55, sometimes colder. Temp drops ~ 2 degrees C per 1,000 feet...assuming a "standard day" at sea level of 15C, that equates to -45 C at 30,000 feet. Pressure drops 1" of mercury per 1,000 feet. Even a big jet with modern high-bypass fans can barely climb at 40,000 feet...we see maybe 200-300 feet per minute at that altitude, despite the air being -50 or -55. Once you get close to the tropopoause (~30,000 feet up to ~56,000 depending on location on earth) the temp drop stabilizes.

Back to Mustangs (not the flying kind)...My tuner likely set my timing to pull early for safety since my engine is not forged. Roush's tune just plain scares me with such high timing and not pulling any of it until very high IAT's. My tune has a "Borderline" timing (BKT, or borderline Knock Table) of 17 degrees...and an MBT of 20 degrees (MBT, depending on who you believe, is "Minimum (spark advance) for Best Torque" or "Maximum Brake Torque" (GM and Ford I guess use the same value but a different acronym). My knock sensors are set to allow my PCM to feed in more spark advance, as long as my IAT's are cool. Once my IAT's rise, my timing tables retard, which cost me power. That is why my engine has survived with a TVS and 9 PSI and nearly 500 RWHP - my tuner knows what he is doing to keep me "safe" in varying conditions...it is still a risk, especially when it is -5 C outside and I am making a ton of power and the engine internals are really being tested.

To address some of your questions - that 125-131 total IAT range I have seen is in steady-state cruise, at 84 degress ambient air temp, at 60 MPH in fourth gear. I am trying to see what, if any, changes the mods to my intercooler / HEX / reservoir / pump make to my IAT's - one step at a time. I could certainly mod everything at once, but to me, half the fun of this hobby is learning and documenting what each little mod does. When I slow down, IAT rises for two reasons: less airflow through the intake (throttle at idle) and less airflow through the heat exchanger (HEX). Then, I hammer the throttle, going to 9 PSI, and running through first, second, third. Initially, I see a big IAT drop - due to the increased airflow through the intake - that cool "environmental" air you refer to...during boost and the 12 seconds or so it takes to get through a quarter mile, I am not seeing any rise really...it is AFTER the run where I see AT start to rise...but it depends on whether I can keep cruising at 60 MPH or if I slow to a stop. If you slow down, you just heat-soaked the intercooler fluid via the run with boost, and now you are not cooling it because the car is slow or stopped, so airflow through the HEX has ceased - so IAT starts to climb...as we only have radiant cooling of the HEX, and the inlet tract has limited airflow at idle. ON top of that, now the hot engine and headers are soaking the underhood...Canton reservoir, Roush degas bottle, all the coolant lines, and - yes, my "Hot Air Intake". I find it all very interesting.

I have not yet insulated my reservoir...I'll do an install thread and get to that soon. My fittings are 5/8" on the reservoir, and everything else is 3/4, so I need to resolve that issue. I guess Canton offers them in 3/4 so I should have inquired, but I had no clue and assumed since it was for a Mustang they would be 3/4 but I was wrong. I have some goodies I'll get to play with next week...I am just waiting for some forum purchases to arrive and I'll get experimenting soon.

Carmen, I see what you mean, and I think I agree, KB was trying to say something that is accurate concerning intercooling, and perhaps I am mis-interpreting their intent on intercooling, but I still cannot understand or grasp their header information, LOL. Don't get me wrong - I would run a KB on my car, and from what I understand they are a great company. It just seems to me the "attitude" they take needs adjusting...a major rule in sales is to never disparage your competitors, but rather show how you are better...and they tend to say everyone else is wrong...and that document, despite being great, could use some re-writing IMHO.

They more I learn about IAT's and intercooling, the more I want a meth system. They really are rather inexpensive for what they do.

[SteveL]

The point K Bell was trying to get across is that it doesn't change..and here's why.

I see. You (and KB) are talking about the mass air meter section. Ambient air that flows past the meter may be heated by a supercharger then cooled by an intercooler but regardless of whether the air was heated or cooled, what flowed past the meter ends up in the engine anyway.

[redfire427]

Shane,
I think your results will be purely subjective as to how each mod affects temperature. I know with my Aeroforce gauge, I can make it read pretty much any temperature I want based purely on throttle position. I couldn't make an honest opinion myself as to how any mod would make a difference.

In reference to the hot air intake, if you remember the inlet ducts that LeeU was making some time ago, well instead to using those to direct air to the brake shields, I was going to use them as air inlets and direct the air up to the airbox area to combat the issue that Kenne Bell wrote about.

Your quote "They more I learn about IAT's and intercooling, the more I want a meth system. They really are rather inexpensive for what they do." Well, this is not entirely true. The kit is somewhat pricey depending on the application. When add the cost of retuning the car to account for the extra fuel ( not completely necessary, depending on your goals ), the total cost is not that cheap. It is a good way to cool though and gives you that extra protection from detonation.

[DiMora]

Shane,
I think your results will be purely subjective as to how each mod affects temperature. I know with my Aeroforce gauge, I can make it read pretty much any temperature I want based purely on throttle position. I couldn't make an honest opinion myself as to how any mod would make a difference.

In reference to the hot air intake, if you remember the inlet ducts that LeeU was making some time ago, well instead to using those to direct air to the brake shields, I was going to use them as air inlets and direct the air up to the airbox area to combat the issue that Kenne Bell wrote about.

Your quote "They more I learn about IAT's and intercooling, the more I want a meth system. They really are rather inexpensive for what they do." Well, this is not entirely true. The kit is somewhat pricey depending on the application. When add the cost of retuning the car to account for the extra fuel ( not completely necessary, depending on your goals ), the total cost is not that cheap. It is a good way to cool though and gives you that extra protection from detonation.

When I go with my engine mods, I'll be getting re-tuned anyway, so I had thought about adding meth at the same time, depending on my results with the intercooler mods. As far as IAT's, I was cruising with cruise control on on the same road at the same ambient temp after the car was fully heat-soaked...I know what you mean...I see IAT drop when you go up-hill (more airflow through intake due to bigger throttle position) and IAT rise on downhill (throttle closed, low airflow) so indeed...very subjective...but the reason I think it was 2 degrees or so cooler with more fluid in the system was because I am noting the absolute minimum and max values I saw each time...same road...same ambient, etc.

Now...if it is true, two degrees is nothing to get excited over at all...almost no return on the mod investment...but I am hoping for a "synergistic return" on my investment, IE a bigger heat exchanger coupled with a high-flow Meziere pump and the increased fluid may drop me a significant amount of IAT...I hope.

Does anyone know precisely where the "ambient" air temp is taken that the aeroforce is reading? I was wondering how close that temp is to the air temp the filter is sucking in.

My mind is now entertaining either a KB cold air type setup or as you have proposed, Carmen, some sort of brake duct cool air apparatus. I am not above hacking a hole in my fender or somewhere else to re-locate my filter to a cooler air location, if I can engineer it properly. I am studying the KB solution.

I find it interesting all the fuss KB makes about cold air "hot air" intakes, end then they run this on the SuperSnakes:



The above sure looks like a standard "hot air intake" to me - the kind KB rips on.

[redfire427]

I think what they might have been refering to is the type that do not have a heat-shield around them. I believe I have seen a JLT ( or some other brand ) where the filter is simply attached to the intake tube and there is nothing to reflect the surrounding heat. In your example above, only the front portion is exposed. The sheet metal will act somewhat as a barrier from the exhaust heat.

[DiMora]

I think what they might have been refering to is the type that do not have a heat-shield around them. I believe I have seen a JLT ( or some other brand ) where the filter is simply attached to the intake tube and there is nothing to reflect the surrounding heat. In your example above, only the front portion is exposed. The sheet metal will act somewhat as a barrier from the exhaust heat.

I know it flows well...



Read this to see more of what I mean. They say at the end the Shelby SuperSnake is not ideal and they are working on that too.

You have to give them big credit for sticking to their guns...I think they are spot-on on getting the intake air from a source outside the underhood area:

http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Tech_..._advantage.htm

And even more:

http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Commo...AirWARNING.pdf

I simply find it funny they go berserk in the above document, but yet do it themselves on the GT500 SuperSnake kit. LOL.

[walker2t]

No scientist by a long shot. I'm pretty good at maths. I worked for the telco for 34 yrs as a network tech. Part of the job was testing the diesel back up generators..and some maintenance. Some were V-16's with pistons the size of paint cans, used at big offices. The small ones at some cell sites- microwave sites were at elevated locations. We measured and logged the incoming air temps, then the air temps from output of the turbo..then again after the air to air intercooler. From time to time I had to deal with HVAC engineers (heating ventilation, air conditioning). Telco's are one of the few places that have AC running flat out in January, so the eq doesn't blow up from heat. I still design cooling systems for high power transmitters,and also stuff like the mating dummy loads used to test them. The dummy load problem is very similar to the intercooler-HE problems in a blower setup. In some cases, oil is used as the cooling medium, and in other cases, either distilled water, or destilled and deionized water is used. Then back to the same problems, how many GPM, and how big each radiator has to be..and how many CFM through the HE..to dump all the heat. Some of the big metal transmitter tubes are air cooled, and some are water cooled...and some are whats called vapour phase cooled. That last one, vapour phase cooling, they boil the water, and then recondense the steam..in a big loop. You get a huge release of energy when you go from 212 deg F water to 212 deg f steam. Its 20 x more eff vs plane water cooling at a lower temp. It was also used on several diesel engines we looked after. The latest craze is called multi phase cooling, which is a combo of water cooling then vapor phase cooling. It uses the advantages of both schemes. On another forum I'm on, they are having a battle and a half, (world wide forum) trying to figure out the most efficient method to either liquid cool or water cool the heatsinks used for solid state high power RF amplifiers..then dump the heat.

Everybody is having the same problems. The SC setup used by Roush is just 2 radiators back to back in a loop, with a reservoir bottle + pump. Sounds simple till you try and implement it in an automotive application. Those big diesels at work with the giant turbos. They can operate in full boost mode 24 hrs for days on end. 15 lbs of boost is normal on them. CFM is double that of NA mode. In some applications, cfm is tripled. BTW... the temp on the turbo output is typ 190 deg F.... and is down to 130 deg F..after it has passed through the air to air intercooler. Of course it helps when you have 25,000 cfm from the eng fan helping to cool the small air to air HE. The HE is usually stacked on top of the normal eng rad. On one diesel setup we had back in the 70's.... it used a turbo on the back end...and a SC on the front end.

If I don't like the IAT's on my 2010 M90 set up, I will try and stuff a 16" or 18" fan in there...and blow 950-1850 cfm through the roush HE. The HE on the 2010 M90 is big, 18" tall x 21" wide. Same 18x21 HE is also used on the Roush 2010-2013 tvs blowers. I would have to relocate the pump though. No big deal. Just replace it with a bigger one at the same time. I want to see what the aeroforce sez 1st though. Justin tells me that Roush pulls the timing when IAT hits 150 deg F. Roush also uses 29 deg of timing on the M90. Shrouding up the sides of the rads in the car would help a lot. Stock, the eng rad, AC rad, HE..all sitting in front of each other is a less than optimum setup for airflow.

Wayne, have you ordered those roush side splitters yet. You will kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

Jimbo

side splitters ordered this morning for $133.00 autoplicity.com