Tune loading questions

[Chump]

Took my car to the track for the first time this year, while its been an unbelieveably hot and humid year my car only ran 11.80s while i was expecting 11.50s 60s at worst. Both my 60 fts were down and my mph. I was wondering when if you ever should have to reload your tune on your car. I did disconnect my battery to clean my throttle body a few months ago. thanks

[Ct. Rich]

Hot and humid = Less HP

[Chump]

Hot and humid is one thing half a second is another.....I used to go all the time and never saw those kind of drops.... is it possible i need to reload my tune? or should it be good once its installed forever?

[AutoXRacer]

It should be gone once and forever... Rarely is it needed to reload your tune.

Also, never ever load a tune and then go to the track!!! The PCM needs to adjust itself first before you go WOT... I've read numerous threads of people flashing their PCM at the drag strip just to end up blowing their engines because the PCM did not have a chance to "adjust" itself.

Do you think your times were down because of your 60fts...? 11.38 with only an M90 is pretty impressive...

What about fuel quality...? Maybe that was off and PCM pulled timing.

[Ct. Rich]

Could be a combination of many things.....Heat and humidity costing HP, PCM pulling timing because of heat related issues, "greasy" track conditions. I wouldn't be too concerned. Wait until you get some cooler, crisper air and see how you make out. What time of the year did you run the mid elevens? How was the weather that day?

[Pentalab]

What rear tires are you using. Is the 5r55 auto tranny ok. What about the rear end gears, fluid,, limited slip differential, etc.
I'm paranoid about the 5r55 auto tranny. So added the aluminum deeper pan ( holds an extra 4 qts) + the JDM catch can + 12.8 qts of RP "max ATF"
What about plug condition, air filter, fuel filter. Wait till this fall. If still no good, then get the car on the dyno.

Jimbo

[DiMora]

All that reloading your tune does is wipe out your KAM (Keep Alive Memory).

These are things such as idle fuel trims, etc. that the car "learns" as you drive it. The car "learns" these in various states, such as with A/C on and A/C off.

When you go wide-open throttle, you go from open loop (where the car's oxygen sensors talk to your car's computer in real time, making constant adjustments to maintain an optimized A/F ratio) to closed loop, which is when the tune that your tuner wrote takes over.

There should be zero danger in going WOT after re-loading your tune; with that said, your car may not idle correctly after a re-load.

[808muscle]

All that reloading your tune does is wipe out your KAM (Keep Alive Memory).

These are things such as idle fuel trims, etc. that the car "learns" as you drive it. The car "learns" these in various states, such as with A/C on and A/C off.

When you go wide-open throttle, you go from open loop (where the car's oxygen sensors talk to your car's computer in real time, making constant adjustments to maintain an optimized A/F ratio) to closed loop, which is when the tune that your tuner wrote takes over.

There should be zero danger in going WOT after re-loading your tune; with that said, your car may not idle correctly after a re-load.

.
So if I have a tune written specifically for the track, are you saying I should load it in before I drive the 30 miles to the track? I was hoping just to load it there and run it. Brenspeed is writing me two new tunes. I wanted to run the everyday tune to see what it does then run the 12.9 ie slowed down tune for my bracket races.

[Chump]

What rear tires are you using. Is the 5r55 auto tranny ok. What about the rear end gears, fluid,, limited slip differential, etc.
I'm paranoid about the 5r55 auto tranny. So added the aluminum deeper pan ( holds an extra 4 qts) + the JDM catch can + 12.8 qts of RP "max ATF"
What about plug condition, air filter, fuel filter. Wait till this fall. If still no good, then get the car on the dyno.

Jimbo

Im running mickey thompson street et's. Tranny feels fine, the car just feels sluggish out of the hole (1.75 60 ft no tire spin where 1.58-1.62 for my good passes). Ive ran 11.50s in hot weather which is why i expected 50-60s at worst (car prob has 300-400 passes on it). My 11.38 was on a cool fall day mid 50s and good air. I changed to a colder plug at 10k miles car only has 35k now. So im assuming with low miles the fuel filter and plugs are still good. I did check my air filter and it was a little dirty and the little rubber section behind my MAF sensor has some dust on it. I think im gonna try and spray the MAF off and blow the air filter out real well tomorrow and see how it feels.

Also i didnt realize they had a deeper pan for our trannys....I thought it was a closed trans. I know my trans gets super hot i can feel it in the car if ive been cruising around town for an hour or so.

[Chump]

All that reloading your tune does is wipe out your KAM (Keep Alive Memory).

These are things such as idle fuel trims, etc. that the car "learns" as you drive it. The car "learns" these in various states, such as with A/C on and A/C off.

When you go wide-open throttle, you go from open loop (where the car's oxygen sensors talk to your car's computer in real time, making constant adjustments to maintain an optimized A/F ratio) to closed loop, which is when the tune that your tuner wrote takes over.

There should be zero danger in going WOT after re-loading your tune; with that said, your car may not idle correctly after a re-load.

Interesting info thanks.

[Pentalab]

Interesting info thanks.

It should relearn the idle pretty quick. On my SCT-X3 + new VMP tune... I can set the idle on the X3 to anything I want. http://www.vmptuning.com/pics/AutoUserAdjust.jpg When I got the new X3 from VMP, the idle was set for 700 rpm in park-neutral....and 600 rpm when in Drive (and foot on the brake). And that's exactly what I get when looking at the rpm on the digital readout aeroforce gauges.

On a similar note, when I installed the FRPP twin 62mm TB, (this was with the Roush tune, months ago), the idle did not change at all.

Jimbo

[Pentalab]

Im running mickey thompson street et's. Tranny feels fine, the car just feels sluggish out of the hole (1.75 60 ft no tire spin where 1.58-1.62 for my good passes). Ive ran 11.50s in hot weather which is why i expected 50-60s at worst (car prob has 300-400 passes on it). My 11.38 was on a cool fall day mid 50s and good air. I changed to a colder plug at 10k miles car only has 35k now. So im assuming with low miles the fuel filter and plugs are still good. I did check my air filter and it was a little dirty and the little rubber section behind my MAF sensor has some dust on it. I think im gonna try and spray the MAF off and blow the air filter out real well tomorrow and see how it feels.

Also I didnt realize they had a deeper pan for our trannys....I thought it was a closed trans. I know my trans gets super hot i can feel it in the car if ive been cruising around town for an hour or so.

It was suggested to me to change the $14.00 fuel filter every 20k miles if a blower is installed. On the aeroforce gauges, I can read the fuel pump pressure at the back end of the car.... and also the fuel rail pressure at the front end of the car... and both of em simultaneously. The fuel filter is between those two points..and is located in that recess, beneath the driver's side door. Dunno how long the plugs will last with your 10 psi of boost. I read some interesting tech notes buried on VMP's website, where the plugs on his (Justin's) 700 rwhp GT-500, did not last very long at all.

The ATF in the auto tranny is supposed to be changed out around 30 k miles per local Ford dealer. The damn thing has no dipstick, and the oem ATF is not synthetic. With a blower in the mix, it will also puke out ATF into that relief vent... and end up on the ground. You will have no clue at all if it's down 1-2 qts. ( the aeroforce gauge will show the tranny slipping long before you can actually feel it slipping)

Walker2T has the same 2010 GT + M90 blower as I have..except he has the 2.49" pulley, vanes in airbox lid chopped out, and 3.73 gears. His auto tranny runs blazing hot. You can feel the heat pouring through the cup holders. The tip off is when the ice cold pepsi taste like warm soup. The 2010 has only a single pass, real small tranny cooler, sandwiched tightly between the bottom of the AC rad and the Roush HE in front of it. I was gonna try and replace it with a 4-6 pass type of tranny cooler, but its a tight fit. ( the 05-09 cars have a 6 pass tranny cooler between the eng rad and AC rad..and mounted directly to the eng rad!).

So onto plan B. Performance automatic makes a deeper..aluminum tranny pan for both the 05-09 cars (holds an extra 4 qts).... and also one for the 2011-2013 cars ( holds an extra 3 qts). This new deeper pan is triple the weight of the oem steel pan. ( AL is 10.7 lbs). It also has a dipstick, which is .75" diam..and comes out just to the right of the battery, against the firewall. It uses a 90 deg lock down and triple rubber seal on the dip stick. Real easy if you have to top it up. The new pan is 2" deeper vs oem..and sits .25" lower than the oem exhaust manifold. Clearance has not been an issue anywhere in town, over anything. There are 13 ribs running lengthways and each rib is .187" x .187". That will double the surface area of the bottom. Pan is 15.81" long x 11" wide x 5.75" tall. The lip around the top is .6" thick ! (oem steel pan is 3.6" tall). Aluminum conducts heat triple what steel does. Sitting 2" lower, it gets more airflow onto it.

I had the local ford dealer install it....and also the 13 qts of RP "Max ATF" 100% synthetic ATF. I also had them install the JDM auto tranny catch can.
(no more puking ATF all over the ground, it just flows back into the tranny).

OK, no more heat problems and pepsi stays cold. I took 16 qts of RP atf to the dealer..and he gave me 3 back. The dealer sucks the old ATF out via the tranny cooler lines at the front of the car (instead of the drain plug on bottom of pan). He then uses the same cooler lines to run flushing liquid for a while, to get all the remaining crap and varnish outs the tranny + TQ converter etc. The new pan also has a drain plug on the bottom. I was told that if the drain plug is used instead of sucking out the front... that you will only get .666 to .75 of the ATF out of there. Beware, there is also a filter at bottom of tranny, which can only be cleaned by removing the pan.

So mine got sucked out, then flushed, then old pan tossed, filter cleaned, new AL pan installed, along with new dipstick + catch can, then new RP ATF.
Aeroforce gauge shows 75 F when 1st starting out...and it takes a long time to get it up to 150 F. Depends on if its a hot day or if I have the blower on or just cruising etc. Eventually it hits 171 F..and stays put. The highest I ever saw was 180 F..with the Roush tune. Once the VMP tune went in, there is no way I can get it to go over 172 F.

With the Roush tune, it would go into OD @ 30 mph @ 1000 rpm around town. Anything much below 1500 rpm, and the TQ converter is not locked up, is slipping, and ATF will heat up.

I looked at some auto tranny cooler sites..and the consensus is if the ATF is 160-200 F AFTER the cooler, its good. At 170 F, the ATF is supposed to be good for 100 K miles. 190F and its good for 50 K miles. 220 F and its then only 5 K miles. Also noticed that on the fan cooled tranny rads... they set the thermostat for the fan at 175F.

Yesterday, it was a hot day out, and I had the blower going full tilt in 1st and 2nd gear for 3 miles, and couldn't get the tranny temp over 168F. The synthetic ATF alone is supposed to result in a several degree temp drop. BTW, the local ford dealer had already done one of these deeper pans on a fellow club member's 2008 GT with a saleen TVS blower. I met him after the fact, and he tells me his runs good now. b4 it would cook the console..with his 475 rwhp.

Deeper tranny http://www.americanmuscle.com/perfor...span-0510.html
JDM catch can for the 05-09 auto cars http://www.teamjdm.com/automatic-5r5...catch-can-kit/
JDM catch can for the 2010 automatic http://www.teamjdm.com/catch-can-for...up-mustang-gt/

Not cheap.... but better than destroying the 5r55.



Jimbo

[Chump]

It was suggested to me to change the $14.00 fuel filter every 20k miles if a blower is installed. On the aeroforce gauges, I can read the fuel pump pressure at the back end of the car.... and also the fuel rail pressure at the front end of the car... and both of em simultaneously. The fuel filter is between those two points..and is located in that recess, beneath the driver's side door. Dunno how long the plugs will last with your 10 psi of boost. I read some interesting tech notes buried on VMP's website, where the plugs on his (Justin's) 700 rwhp GT-500, did not last very long at all.

The ATF in the auto tranny is supposed to be changed out around 30 k miles per local Ford dealer. The damn thing has no dipstick, and the oem ATF is not synthetic. With a blower in the mix, it will also puke out ATF into that relief vent... and end up on the ground. You will have no clue at all if it's down 1-2 qts. ( the aeroforce gauge will show the tranny slipping long before you can actually feel it slipping)

Walker2T has the same 2010 GT + M90 blower as I have..except he has the 2.49" pulley, vanes in airbox lid chopped out, and 3.73 gears. His auto tranny runs blazing hot. You can feel the heat pouring through the cup holders. The tip off is when the ice cold pepsi taste like warm soup. The 2010 has only a single pass, real small tranny cooler, sandwiched tightly between the bottom of the AC rad and the Roush HE in front of it. I was gonna try and replace it with a 4-6 pass type of tranny cooler, but its a tight fit. ( the 05-09 cars have a 6 pass tranny cooler between the eng rad and AC rad..and mounted directly to the eng rad!).

So onto plan B. Performance automatic makes a deeper..aluminum tranny pan for both the 05-09 cars (holds an extra 4 qts).... and also one for the 2011-2013 cars ( holds an extra 3 qts). This new deeper pan is triple the weight of the oem steel pan. ( AL is 10.7 lbs). It also has a dipstick, which is .75" diam..and comes out just to the right of the battery, against the firewall. It uses a 90 deg lock down and triple rubber seal on the dip stick. Real easy if you have to top it up. The new pan is 2" deeper vs oem..and sits .25" lower than the oem exhaust manifold. Clearance has not been an issue anywhere in town, over anything. There are 13 ribs running lengthways and each rib is .187" x .187". That will double the surface area of the bottom. Pan is 15.81" long x 11" wide x 5.75" tall. The lip around the top is .6" thick ! (oem steel pan is 3.6" tall). Aluminum conducts heat triple what steel does. Sitting 2" lower, it gets more airflow onto it.

I had the local ford dealer install it....and also the 13 qts of RP "Max ATF" 100% synthetic ATF. I also had them install the JDM auto tranny catch can.
(no more puking ATF all over the ground, it just flows back into the tranny).

OK, no more heat problems and pepsi stays cold. I took 16 qts of RP atf to the dealer..and he gave me 3 back. The dealer sucks the old ATF out via the tranny cooler lines at the front of the car (instead of the drain plug on bottom of pan). He then uses the same cooler lines to run flushing liquid for a while, to get all the remaining crap and varnish outs the tranny + TQ converter etc. The new pan also has a drain plug on the bottom. I was told that if the drain plug is used instead of sucking out the front... that you will only get .666 to .75 of the ATF out of there. Beware, there is also a filter at bottom of tranny, which can only be cleaned by removing the pan.

So mine got sucked out, then flushed, then old pan tossed, filter cleaned, new AL pan installed, along with new dipstick + catch can, then new RP ATF.
Aeroforce gauge shows 75 F when 1st starting out...and it takes a long time to get it up to 150 F. Depends on if its a hot day or if I have the blower on or just cruising etc. Eventually it hits 171 F..and stays put. The highest I ever saw was 180 F..with the Roush tune. Once the VMP tune went in, there is no way I can get it to go over 172 F.

With the Roush tune, it would go into OD @ 30 mph @ 1000 rpm around town. Anything much below 1500 rpm, and the TQ converter is not locked up, is slipping, and ATF will heat up.

I looked at some auto tranny cooler sites..and the consensus is if the ATF is 160-200 F AFTER the cooler, its good. At 170 F, the ATF is supposed to be good for 100 K miles. 190F and its good for 50 K miles. 220 F and its then only 5 K miles. Also noticed that on the fan cooled tranny rads... they set the thermostat for the fan at 175F.

Yesterday, it was a hot day out, and I had the blower going full tilt in 1st and 2nd gear for 3 miles, and couldn't get the tranny temp over 168F. The synthetic ATF alone is supposed to result in a several degree temp drop. BTW, the local ford dealer had already done one of these deeper pans on a fellow club member's 2008 GT with a saleen TVS blower. I met him after the fact, and he tells me his runs good now. b4 it would cook the console..with his 475 rwhp.

Deeper tranny http://www.americanmuscle.com/perfor...span-0510.html
JDM catch can for the 05-09 auto cars http://www.teamjdm.com/automatic-5r5...catch-can-kit/
JDM catch can for the 2010 automatic http://www.teamjdm.com/catch-can-for...up-mustang-gt/

Not cheap.... but better than destroying the 5r55.



Jimbo

Thanks alot ill prob look into that for this winter my console gets rediculously hot. Im also gonna go ahead and change that fuel filter as well no harm in it.

[808muscle]

I will concur with the deep pan and JDM trans catch can. Hot lapping my car at the track and my temps reach 172' at most. Before the pan I would see 180' plus. I also have the aero force gauge to monitor this. Trans catch can works perfectly too. Before I had it I had fluid on my garage floor after a day of racing.
Swapping trans fluid is super easy now. You can fill from the dipstick. If you have ever done it the ford manual way on jack stands on your back in the driveway you will know what I mean.

[Chump]

The ATF in the auto tranny is supposed to be changed out around 30 k miles per local Ford dealer. The damn thing has no dipstick, and the oem ATF is not synthetic. With a blower in the mix, it will also puke out ATF into that relief vent... and end up on the ground. You will have no clue at all if it's down 1-2 qts. ( the aeroforce gauge will show the tranny slipping long before you can actually feel it slipping)



Jimbo

what gauge shows the tranny slipping? is it expensive?

[walker2t]

i can attest to what pentalab states.. my auto trans is ridiculously hot.... i just put a cup of cold water with a coffee single in it and go for a few miles of driving for that perfect cup of joe. lol i just hit 30,000 miles a fuel filter change and trans fluid change is on order...

[walker2t]

pentalab where did you put your catch can? pic please because i think you said i will have to move mine....