TR3650 Transmission - Hard to shift into 2nd gear

[Stage3Roush]

I have a 09 Roush with the Tremec TR3650 transmission that does not want to shift into 2nd gear without a lot of force??? There is no noise or whinning coming from the transmission and the other gears shift great. The problem is when I do a normal or aggressive shift (3000-6000 RPM) I have to pull very hard to get the shifter into 2nd gear. If I pause or granny shift it drops into 2nd gear like butter. I should also note that downshifting to 2nd gear is never a problem it drops in without any extra effort or running through the gears with the car not running is not an issue. It acts like my first manual car I had back in the day where you could not shift into first gear unless you were stopped so I am thinking it may be the 1-2 synchro and/or a bent shift fork.

I have tried a variety of things from upgrading to an MGW shifter, replacing the fluid to Mobil1 and most recently Pennzoil Synchromesh. I also replaced the clutch line to SS per my discussion with Tremec but nothing has solved the problem. I am about to have my local Roush dealer drop the transmission to take a look but wanted some advice before I drop the cash because this will not be cheap no matter which direction I take.

[gasberner]

I have a 09 Roush with the Tremec TR3650 transmission that does not want to shift into 2nd gear without a lot of force??? There is no noise or whinning coming from the transmission and the other gears shift great. The problem is when I do a normal or aggressive shift (3000-6000 RPM) I have to pull very hard to get the shifter into 2nd gear. If I pause or granny shift it drops into 2nd gear like butter. I should also note that downshifting to 2nd gear is never a problem it drops in without any extra effort or running through the gears with the car not running is not an issue. It acts like my first manual car I had back in the day where you could not shift into first gear unless you were stopped so I am thinking it may be the 1-2 synchro and/or a bent shift fork.

I have tried a variety of things from upgrading to an MGW shifter, replacing the fluid to Mobil1 and most recently Pennzoil Synchromesh. I also replaced the clutch line to SS per my discussion with Tremec but nothing has solved the problem. I am about to have my local Roush dealer drop the transmission to take a look but wanted some advice before I drop the cash because this will not be cheap no matter which direction I take.

Nope I think you are on something with the synchro's. Same thing is my car but it was 1st gear, did a rebuild kit and while I was in there replaced the flywheel and clutch. After the rebuild just like new.

[Operation_Roush]

For the $1500 its going to cost to have the synchros replaced you could just save that money for a better tranny. Both of ours were like that from 1st to 2nd to an extent.

[Stage3Roush]

You are reading my mind brother, great suggestion. What would you put in??? I have just started the research and I was thinking of the T56 Magnum but then again would I better off getting away from Tremec altogether??? Need some help from the Roush faithful on some options because it is very frustrating not being able to quickly shift into 2nd and I hate to say it, but I would have been better off with an automatic (just kidding).

[whtstg3]

How aout this?

http://store.jpcracing.com/TREMEC-MA...ns_p_1968.html

[skwerl]

First off, there's no reason to have Roush do the transmission work since they will probably just farm out the repair anyway. Find a good transmission shop to do the work, one that specializes in manuals as well as automatics.

I have the exact same issue with my third gear and it is currently getting fixed. I was expecting to hear back today on what exactly they found but it's after 5 and no phone call. I guess they didn't finish it so I'll call them tomorrow to find out the status. Mine would shift fine on the street but it would lock me out of 3rd gear at the drag strip or if I attempted to run the gears and shift over 6K rpm. As soon as the rpm dropped it would slide in easily. I also did all the recommended fixes to no avail. MGW, SS clutch line, CHE brace, Syncromesh fluid, etc. I've dumped way too much money into this for it to still be screwed up. I'll update this thread once I get the car back.

[RyanV]

My 2008 GT was horrible on the 1-2 shift from new but only at high RPM shifting. I took the car to Ford several times and when I drove with the service manager and replicated the problem he described what I was doing as "abusing" the car and stated it shifted fine under "normal operating conditions"........blah blah blashpemy.

I bit the bullet in 2009 and went with the TR6060, CHE Brace, MGW Shifter and Stainless Line, Syncromesh Fluid and I have been beating the life out of it since with just a big smile on my face, but no shifting problems.

I paid almost 6K for the TR 6060, Clutch, Shifter and SS line..........

Look at D&D Now they sell the T56 kit for 3500 (note this does not include the drive shaft which you will need it costs around 800 plus shipping.....) you will also need a 26 spline clutch kit single disc is 400 dual around 700 to 800 so all said and done a t56 swap will run you 5K.

There are reputable rebuilders of the TR3560 such as American Powertrain and another builder who was featured in one of the latest issues of MM&FF or 5.0 Mustang I cant remember right now as I post but I will be sure to look in my latest issues laying around and update. I think American Powertrain will rebuild/strengthen the 3650 for like 1100 plus shipping and the other builder was like 1300.

Hope any of this information helps as I have fought the 3650 battle and it is frustrating.

[Stage3Roush]

Thanks RyanV and skwerl. I am very curious to see how skwerl's repair turns out. I am leaning heavily towards the link above my buddy (whtstg3) sent me regarding the XL S197 package. Do I need everything in the package (26 spline input shaft, new clutch, single piece drive shaft)???

It is very frustrating because my previous Roush was a 07 Stage3 which did not have any shift problems but based on the number of issues I can find the TR3650 can be a P.O.S. for many of us, so I am very reluctant to spend any money on a transmission that I am not sure will not fail again.

What gear ratio did you get?

TR3650 GEAR RATIO:
3.38: 1st
2.0: 2nd
1.32: 3rd
1.0: 4th
0.675: 5th

XL S197: I am leaning towards
2.97:1st
2.10:2nd
1.46:3rd
1.00:4th
0.80:5th
0.63:6th

[eighty6gt]

The OEM transmissions went out the door with as poor as parts setup/quality as possible to keep the average consumer happy.

Some of the issue is the "large" diameter single disk diaphragm clutch - they don't like high rpm, and are sticky.

The rest is the friction in the synchro clutches. It's tough to get these large gears to speed up or slow down, so you end up with clash.

All that said, new sliders, gears, and blocker rings and they can shift well. Aftermarket/service parts seem to work better.

[Braker41]

i'm having this same problem with 1-3 sometimes 4th it seems like, when driving hard needs about a .5sec wait and it like drops in then slides into gear in that time

[RyanV]

D and D sells the XL T-56 and it has the added benefit of no remote shifter which is really a weak point in shifting operation in the TR3650 and TR6060 setup in these vehicles.

http://www.ddperformance.com/Ford_20...80cPath=108_95

If you upgrade the transmission comes with the 26 spline shaft installed so you will need a clutch for the 26 spline shaft and I would highly suggest the Steel Hydraulic line and one piece driveshaft (pretty sure it is required as the TR606 and T56 are longer than the 3650...........

I did the install its pretty straight forward other then needing to slightly alter the wiring harness that runs through the trans tunnel but thats just a matter of opening the harness and retaping/covering the wires so you can relocate one of the connecters from the passenger to the driver side.

[RyanV]

This is even cheaper than fixing the 3650.....just get a brand new one shipped with no core for 1000.00

http://www.ddperformance.com/shop/pr...s_id=319cPath=

[Stage3Roush]

Thanks Ryan but getting another TR3650 is not in the cards I am done with that transmission and IMO it is not the right setup for a Mustang running 500 ft/lbs of torque. I would rather bite the bullet when I torpedo my transmission and upgrade to the XL S197 (T56 Magnum). I am narrowing down my final list of options and if anyone has any input please chime in, thanks.

XL S197:
Gear Ratio
2.97:1st
2.10:2nd
1.46:3rd
1.00:4th
0.80:5th
0.63:6th

Upgrades:
JPC Clutch Line Upgrade [+$79.00]
Driveshaft Aluminum one piece with billet yoke [+$180]
McLeod RXT Clutch [+$490]
McLeod Aluminum flywheel [+$145]
Steeda Tri Ax Shifter [+$204.00]

Not Sure:
New 05-10 Slave Cylinder (required on 10-up GT500 w/Aftermarket Clutch) [+$199.00] ??? Not Sure if I need this
Urethane Trans Mount [+$34.00]

[RyanV]

Looks good so far......where did you find a one piece driveshaft for $180? I paid around $700 for mine just curious?

[Stage3Roush]

The $180 is an upcharge from the Kit price of $4,499.95, follow the link below. My all in price before shipping and installation for the options I have listed above is $5598 (ouch)!!! The wife is not going to be happy (LOL).

http://store.jpcracing.com/TREMEC-MA...ns_p_1968.html

[santi_bh88]

what about the gt500 transmission? it would fit in a regular mustang gt? cause i could buy one for 3000 used.

[skwerl]

Got the report back on my transmission. They pulled it apart and said it looked pristine. They could not find anything wrong with the 2-3 syncro or anything else. Buttoned it back up and sent it back.

Since the transmission is out and nothing could be found wrong, I'm going to go ahead and swap out the clutch. I discussed upgrades but my transmission guy suggested I stick with an OEM replacement so that's what I'm going to do. Too late to get it today so it will get done Tuesday.

[Stage3Roush]

Bad news / Bad news scenario because now you had to pay for the transmission drop and there is nothing wrong besides the fact we both have a TR3650. Hopefully the clutch change will help, what is the OEM clutch? Let me know how it turns out, good luck.

[Ryan.]

are you sure its not just the drivetrain twisting? I had the CHE Engine brace and it helped, but I don't do lots of hard shifting...

[skwerl]

Ryan,
If you're speaking to me, the answer is that I'm quite sure it isn't driveline twist. I've gone far beyond what most Mustang owners would do to eliminate that possibility and none of it had any affect whatsoever on this particular issue (although the car shifts beautifully otherwise).

The only other possibility is that it has something to do with my BMR K member, as the issue began about 2-3 weeks after installing it. I really don't want to return the front end to stock though.