2010 427R Roush 5psi vs JDM 8psi SCTX3 data comparison plots

[mpm_1]

Just finished JDM'ing my 2010 427R. Mods included....

FRPP throttle body, 2.49" pulley for the M90, new idler pulley, degree colder plugs gapped to 0.032", JDM tune for 93 octane.

First set of pics are of the mods. Nothing new here for many on this site but hope that folks newer to Roush like me or still debating a mod or even an M90 for your GT will appreciate.

Second set of pics are comparison plots using what limited data I could collect with the SCTX3 flash device. I had really hoped for more capability from the SCTX3 in terms of logable parameters (PIDs), but I still had some fun with what I could get. I took a set of data with the Roush tune and then a set with the mods and JDM tune.

Although SCT's LiveLink software is fun for over time / strip chart style plots, the real fun is parameter comparisons plots. Both sets of data are based on a couple of back to back hard excels up through 3rd gear / 90 mph (all I could safely and easily get). There is some lower load data mixed in as I didn't filter the data for only WOT points. Therefore most of the interesting comparisons come at the edges / boundaries of the plots.

Car is definitely snappier all around and pulls harder when on the boost. Boost gauge confirms max boost is now around 8 psi, vs 5 psi before. And oh that sound... the M90 is really talking now.

JDM for the win

The subject at hand....


Let'er breathe ! FRPP vs stock TB


Off with the old... (yes VMP direct ships the (rented) puller and new pulley even for a JDM order)


Comparing to the new 2.49...


On with the new...




Now for some data...

mass air flow vs rpm : no doubt moving more air now (top portion of the graph)
interesting note : 1st gear WOT pull really kicks it - look at the difference in max values now in the 2000 to 4000 RPM range (2nd and 3rd gear WOT data are 4000 rpm and up)


not sure how the SCTX3 calculates "load", but a good relative comparison none the less


fuel pump duty cycle vs rpm, vs maf, and then vs load - wish I had a wide band to correlate this with... sure looks like a rich running Roush tune as lower FPDC's for JDM even though more MAF (except when really cranking it on the high end)




couple of comparisons on spark...

[Pentalab]

How difficult was it to get the oem 73mm pulley off....and then to get the new 2.49" pulley on. Was this like a half hr to one hr job.
At any time, was the FPDC almost maxed out, with blower on @ 6krpm. Kinda tough to tell from the plots.
I assume you have a K+N air filter installed. How hot does the casing + snout get on the M90 blower. I noticed the other day, after being out for a romp, that the steeda front STB, that goes across the M90, was blazing hot.. I mean hot. That baffles me. The steeda aluminum round hats at each end of the stb were also hot.

That day I had just got the new steeda front strut mounts installed ( which allow for + or - 1 deg of camber). They fit the existing steeda stb like a glove, with the 4 x studs just a hair longer than the ford oem ones.

I have a 2010 GT.. with a M90 Blower. I added the same FRPP twin 62mm TB and also the K+N filter + Brisk plugs. Then loaded a new VMP 94 octane tune. I did not install the smaller 2.49" pulley. I'm at sea level, and temps only get up to 75 F at most. Typ 65-68 F during the day..and 55-62F at night. The VMP tune really woke up the M90...night + day difference. My boost is a hair over 5 psi, after the bigger TB went in.

Did you remove the vanes from the airbox lid, or keep them intact. I left mine intact for now. I may still consider the smaller SC pulley, but am worried the M90 is gonna cook it's brains out. I think what may solve some of the heat issues in the eng compartment is to install FRPP ceramic un-tuned shorty headers. Apparently that is supposed to reduce the under hood temps by 20-30F. (IE: let's generate less heat in the 1st place).

Excellent pix of the special tool being used for removal..and install ! Interpreting the various plots is a handful, I'm still trying to sort em out.

Jimbo

[mpm_1]

No trouble at all on the pulley swap using the VMP puller tool and referencing the instructions on the VMP website. Yes, half hr to one hr job for this portion of the work.
Yes, K&N filter, vanes are still in the air box lid. Yep casing & snout get hot, although stock also seemed hot. Undoubtedly hotter than with stock pulley just because of increased drive ratio but by how much it's hard to say. This set up has been around for a good while and IMO if this combo were an equipment killer it wouldn't have survived in the market place, nor the tuners that promote it.

Real question for me is still on the fuel pump duty cycle. I'm not sure what would be considered "maxed out" on the scale that the SCTX3 is using. I do know JDM did not seemed concerned I would have a fuel pump duty cycle issue when I asked about it when placing my order. So I just wanted to get some data and see for myself relatively how much FPDC increased (compare the locations of the JDM and Roush data in the upper right portions of any of the three FPDC plots). Hoping others with more experience on FPDC will chime in....

[Pentalab]

No trouble at all on the pulley swap using the VMP puller tool and referencing the instructions on the VMP website. Yes, half hr to one hr job for this portion of the work.
Yes, K&N filter, vanes are still in the air box lid. Yep casing & snout get hot, although stock also seemed hot. Undoubtedly hotter than with stock pulley just because of increased drive ratio but by how much it's hard to say. This set up has been around for a good while and IMO if this combo were an equipment killer it wouldn't have survived in the market place, nor the tuners that promote it.

Real question for me is still on the fuel pump duty cycle. I'm not sure what would be considered "maxed out" on the scale that the SCTX3 is using. I do know JDM did not seemed concerned I would have a fuel pump duty cycle issue when I asked about it when placing my order. So I just wanted to get some data and see for myself relatively how much FPDC increased (compare the locations of the JDM and Roush data in the upper right portions of any of the three FPDC plots). Hoping others with more experience on FPDC will chime in....

I also have the SCT-X3 hand held tuner. But I use the Aeroforce digital gauges to read stuff like FPDC, ignition advance, AFR, ( u need the wideband O2 bung for AFR), fuel pump pressure, ( back end of car),.... fuel rail pressure ( front end of car), maf (raw voltage), individual cat temps, auto tranny temp, cyl head temps, and also air temp inside the manifold itself ( that one is an eye opener).

Since I still have the 5 psi setup, I can toggle between the roush tune and the new 94 octane VMP tune ! The Roush tune is too rich in NA mode, too lean in blower mode, and Roush has the knock sensor's disabled (starting in 2009 per VMP). The VMP tune is dead on, and also has the knock sensor's enabled. Roush's auto tranny portion of the Roush tune is junk ( rock hard downshift when shutting OFF the OD, and having your foot barely into the gas pedal).

Throttle response with the VMP tune (+ new frpp twin 62mm TB) is nothing short of amazing..in both NA mode ( with boost gauge to the left of zero) and also blower mode. Fuel economy went up 2 mpg around town..and 3-4 mpg on the hwy.

Today, the car was a lot cooler. I think what happened 2 days ago was I was blasting around in 2nd gear quite a bit on a hot day.... then came flying in the driveway. ( I had just wound it up 3 blocks away in 2nd, and cats hit 1780 F). It really needs a cool down period of..."normal driving" in 4th or 5th, at 30 mph for the last 1 mile..to get some more air though it..and eng at 1000-1300 rpm. And not 6000 rpm, with full boost, in 2nd gear.. 2 blocks from your driveway.

BTW... IF your FPDC is too high, (like 90-100%), VMP has this simple wiring mod, using one piece of 12 ga wire from eng to fuel pump controller, to lessen the Voltage drop when at WOT. That will reduce your FPDC by a min of 10%. Most see a 10-14% redux in FPDC. It does the job, without having to install the GT-500 dual pumps or BAP..and cost zip. . http://www.vmptuning.com/forum/showthread.php?t=633

later... Jimbo

[mpm_1]

What do you see on the gauge (or have you logged?) for max FPDC when WOT for your 5 psi set up? Have you compared the SCT-X3 values to the Aeroforce? They would both be taking their data from the same source so I'd really like to see if they report on the same scale / really show the same value. The data I logged on FPDC appears to report out a % duty cycle, but the values for both Roush and JDM were lower than I would have thought if that is true.

Interesting differences between tuners.... When I asked JDM when placing my order they said they do not enable knock sensors (too sensitive to be useful on a boosted 4.6L) and advised against using Aeroforce gauges (any gauge that taps the OBD port) as it may interfere with their tune (didn't really get into an explanation....)

Thanks for any data you can share on FPDC.

[Pentalab]

What do you see on the gauge (or have you logged?) for max FPDC when WOT for your 5 psi set up? Have you compared the SCT-X3 values to the Aeroforce? They would both be taking their data from the same source so I'd really like to see if they report on the same scale / really show the same value. The data I logged on FPDC appears to report out a % duty cycle, but the values for both Roush and JDM were lower than I would have thought if that is true.

Interesting differences between tuners.... When I asked JDM when placing my order they said they do not enable knock sensors (too sensitive to be useful on a boosted 4.6L) and advised against using Aeroforce gauges (any gauge that taps the OBD port) as it may interfere with their tune (didn't really get into an explanation....)

Thanks for any data you can share on FPDC.

I have not tried data logging wit the SCT-X3..yet. Trying to watch the aeroforce FPDC while driving is a bit of a trick as well. I shoulda tried it again, today, and clean forgot. The safest way would be to do it in 1st or 2nd gear. It's aprx 20% at idle, and rises with more rpm of course. b4 I installed those BMR LCA relocate brackets + BMR LCA's.. the back end was all over the place..esp at the top end of 2nd gear... so trying to read the FPDC while trying to keep it straight wasn't exactly safe.

OK, now with the bmr stuff in, everything is straight..so will try it again. The only problem with aeroforce gauges on the SOS A pillar pods... is the passenger can't see em. If the were on the dash, like in a Boss-302 pod, it would be real easy.

Dunno why an aeroforce gauge would mess up a tune. The provided cables with em only have the pins wired for the read only portion. The cable on your SCT-X3 has everything wired, so you can up-load, and down load etc. That's the 1st time I had ever heard of the notion that the aeroforce gauge could mess up a tune. I'd say its virtually impossible. Without my 3 aeroforce gauges, I have no clue what is going on with stuff like auto tranny temps, cat temps, TQ converter, manifold air temp, spark advance,FDP, fuel pressure or any of the other 32 parameters they will read.

JDM mentioned on another thread about the blower, and or an exhaust system could false trigger the knock sensors, so they disable em in software. Apparently they do that with their M90 tunes, and also the TVS tunes on the 05-10 cars... and ditto with their tunes for the 11-13 cars with a TVS.

Where as VMP leaves the knock sensors enabled on all their tunes. If the M90 was tripping the knock sensors, it would pull the timing back..and it's not ! I can see the timing ( spark advance) on the aeroforce gauges. There is a bunch of other stuff that will also pull timing, like cyl head temp, manifold temp, etc, etc. I really don't like the idea of having the knock sensor's disabled. What happens if you get a bad tank of gas, or anything else that would cause the eng to knock when in blower mode.... then you have no protection at all. That makes me cringe, just thinking about it.

BTW, what parameter's can you tweak in your SCT-X3. Here is just a partial list of what I'm allowed to tweak on my X3. http://www.vmptuning.com/pics/AutoUserAdjust.jpg I can also do stuff like change the timing on a global basis (0-8krpm). My tune was for 93 octane + no ethanol. I use 94 octane + no ethanol, so added 1 deg of timing globally, to take full advantage of the 94 I buy.
If I'm on a road trip..and no 94 available, I can easily reduce the timing by 3-4 degs, and use 91 octane. ( I consulted with vmp b4 I added the 1 deg of timing). I also fine tuned the low and high speed fan thresholds. They were set at 204 and 208 F. I shifted em down a bit to 200 and 204 F.
If on a road trip, and the only fuel available has 10% ethanol in it, then the eng will run lean by .3 to .5 afr. I can use the X3 to add more fuel (globally, 0-8 krpm)..and add it in 2% increments, and bring the AFR back down to where I want it. Once back home (or the next place on the road trip has fuel with no ethanol).... I can simply reduce the fuel by the same percentage. That makes the X3 more versatile imo. Being able to compensate for ethanol, or no ethanol, and or 91-94 octane is a huge bonus..and relieves my stress level...esp if 250 miles away from home... in some small town at 11 pm, and the only fuel available is 91 octane with ethanol..and I'm almost outa gas.

Now this only works IF you bring along the X3. Just like your visa card... don't leave home without it. Either that.... or stay off the blower. Or buy just enough fuel to get you to the next town that does have 94 octane.

I still need to get the afr bung welded into which ever side is the easiest. I already have the extra cable installed, that goes from the top aeroforce gauge (AUX input) to the afr sensor box output. Bosch LSU 4.9 bung is cabled over to the mating interface box..... which in turn outputs a 0-5 vdc signal, 0V = 9:1 ratio..and 5V=20:1 ratio. I still need yet another cable, to go from the interface box output.... over to the TOP jack on the SCT-X3. This last cable is used by the X3 to data log stuff that is NOT supported by the ECU ( IE: any external senors like AFR, oil temp, etc). To data log AFR, I will have to temp unplug the aeroforce aux cable at the interface box ( and leave it dangling)... and plug a new cable from same interface box... to top of X3. (IE: AFR info routed to X3 instead of aeroforce AUX input.)

later.... Jimbo