Apex... Stage3... what's the deal guys?

[Vance]

Mike… Bill…

What’s the deal here?

I came to Fn’Sweet looking for advise on Roush Mustangs. This site directly influenced my decision to buy my 427R Mustang and I thank each and everyone that helped me make this decision. I love my new Roush like no other and have made no secret about it.

What’s the deal with the advertisers though??? I thought I could trust you guys????

Mike…
My very first oil change, I PM’d you directly and asked if APEX had AMS oil because I wanted my first oil change to be the best. You PM’d me back and said to come on down. I drove over that day…
I Walked into the reception area and nobody was there. I waited for approx. 10 minutes looking out the open door into the shop hoping someone would make eye contact with me and come in. Nobody came… So, I walked out and around the building to the open bays. Nobody came over to help me. Finally some dude pulled up on a motorcycle, got off and walked toward the bays… I stopped him and asked him if he worked there. He said, “yea”. I told him that Mike told me to swing by, that I could buy some AMS oil there for my very first oil change. He told me that they didn’t have any and that Mike was unavailable…
I left and went to Mustang Ranch, and bought Royal Purple instead.

Bill…
I’ve been looking at hoods since I bought my 427R, mainly due to the stick on hood scoop. I visited Stage3 and picked out the hood that fit my preference after much consideration. I called you and asked you about the hood. You told me that you had one on your Mustang and it looked very good. You went on to advise that it may take 2-3 hr. of prep. I was totally cool with that because I really liked the hood. 15 minutes later I bought it and had it shipped to the body shop (Frontier Auto Body).
The body shop received the hood. They then called me and asked me to come down and see it on my Roush. Upon arriving and viewing the hood I noticed major (1/8th “) waves in the passenger side of the hood. NOT GOOD. It would take a lot of extra prep work (like 5 hrs) to get it to a ‘near’ smooth finish.
I then called Stage3 back and spoke with you again. You said that you were considering not selling hoods from this particular manufacturer and longer because they did not guarantee hood quality. Note that this was NOT stated on your website at the time I paid for it. In all fairness, you did say that you ‘might’ eat the cost of the hood and refund me. You advised that I should get with the body shop and take pictures of the hood imperfections and send them back for review… Within the hour, the website was updated to say:

This manufacture only warranties problems with hood fitment and not hood quality.

Bill… the hood ships in white and that unless you are standing in certain light it’s kinda hard to demonstrate such waves via pictures… nevertheless, the burden is upon me (the paid in full customer) to prove this. Like I order hoods every day from another state and suddenly want to return them for no reason…

DUDE, this hood cost me $540.00, and I called you ahead of time…………… I’m paying like $400 in extra prep work man. Paying it because I really don’t have the time or desire to prove that the hood I received was of less than acceptable quality. Changing your website the same day I call you on it kinda proves this… ya think?



SO, Mike… Bill… is this how you treat Fn’sweet people that see your advertisements and come to you in good faith?

Mike, IMHO, it does not appear that you are in tune with your shop folks. When you aren’t there, you don’t’ know what’s going on. You can thank the slackers you had working that day that didn’t give a crap about me… whom you referred.

Bill, I’m paying for 5 hrs extra hrs. of prep work to get a POS hood in ‘near’ perfect state because I’d rather not dick with convincing you that the hood you shipped me was wavy like Santa Cruz surf.

Guys… I’m just your every day guy that is looking to do right by his Roush, and found you through where he found his Roush inspiration. Definitely feeling screwed here. It’s cool though because I have the cash to deal with it. However, I will let people know the deal though.


Sorry if I appear harsh here, but man this is BS and I just gotta call it.

Yea, I paid the extra cash, and will post pics. I just didn’t expect it to go down like this from a trusted source on Fn’sweet.

This is a great site with great folks. You, as advertisers really need to hook your supporters up though man. This just isn't cool at all.

Again, sorry for the downer, other potential customers need to know this though.

[Ethan@S3M]

PICK UP A PHONE!!! This is not the way to go about this.

[360Rocket]

Shay just posted the guidelines for handling these situations 2 days ago and its not out in public. Go to P.M.'s or pick up a phone and you'll find the vendors here bend over backwards to resolve your issues. No need to damage thier reputations with a public thrashing. I can't find the thread but I'm sure a mod will add it here soon.

[01roushstg1]

here is a link that was posted a couple days ago you might want to read it
Posting etiquette in the Sponsored Forums

[NorCalRoush2]

I am all for warning labels on vendors who deserve it, but you need to give them a chance to fix the issue first. Ive had my issues with Apex but after talking to them, they have always tried to make it right. Give them the benefit of the the doubt and call them.

[F4iMerlin]

With respect to the rules.....

The only reason this keeps coming up is because folks KEEP HAVING ISSUES!

The sponsors have said they can and will respond to questions and whatnot here on the forum. So yelling at us to "pick up the phone" is moot if they welcome questions here.

We are more than welcome to post positive experiences but not negative ones??? Why is that? I have been told it has nothing to do with sponsor money, especially since some of us also support the site with funds (albeit maybe not as much even though I am sure nobody gets rich here)

I want to know when folks have negative experiences, maybe more so than positive ones. Forums are the VERY first place I go when buying new and expensive items of any kind, because I want to know what real people honestly think about a vendor or a product. I could care less what some professional advertising company, or paid entity has to say about either. It is a proven concept, just look at eBay ratings. Show of hands, who here takes the negative comments into account before buying....or better yet, who has chosen to go with a different seller because of those negative comments???

Dont get me wrong, I believe in giving chances and second opportunities when due, and flaming a vendor for what was likely a simple oversight is tacky, but there has been an odd trend lately that needs to be addressed.

This vaguely reminds me of the BlueBoy/bumper issues, other than he was NOT a site sponsor. He provided a horrible product and worse service and folks were free to flame as needed so as to provide a sense of "Buyer Beware".

I'm probably adding to my "virtual enemy" list, but it is how I feel, and clearly I am not the only one. If you are annoyed by this, you probably have not been affected by it. In this internet age, much more is expected of vendors and if they cannot keep up with the level of service of the 100's of other vendors out there, who is to blame????

If vendor "A" has 999 happy customers and 1 unhappy customer, but vendor "B" has 1000 happy customers, who would you go with all else being equal? With the pace of life these days, this is the quickest way to decide who you will purchase from, word of mouth. Why would you want to censor that?

[Shay]

Originally Posted by F4iMerlin

With respect to the rules.....If vendor "A" has 999 happy customers and 1 unhappy customer, but vendor "B" has 1000 happy customers, who would you go with all else being equal? With the pace of life these days, this is the quickest way to decide who you will purchase from, word of mouth. Why would you want to censor that?

The rules stated in the link referenced above are related to posting needlessly boneheaded posts within Sponsor Forums saying things like "where is my order", or "respond to my PM's".

There is no censorship on this site in the arena of a person having a problem with a vendor whether it is a sponsor, not a sponsor, or Roush. There is the proper forum in which to post your issues in, which is this one "Roush Issues". Posting your problems is why it exists in the first place.

Whether a vendor is a sponsor or not, they need to take care of people. Our members have today and have always had the right to vent about their negative experiences. If the members of this forum have lots of problems with a sponsor and a pattern becomes apparent, that will be considered the next time that sponsor wants to renew.

[Stage3motorsports]

on the hood issue: the manufacture, TruFiber, said they will not refund any money because of the quality. Most vendors tell you this and then its end of story. I told you this and told you i didn't agree with this and I may be willing to refund you the money myself. I asked for pictures and was told that wouldn't be a problem. Today i was made aware of this post. I didn't recieve a call back telling me that pics would be a problem. Again we are willing to work with you on this problem but i would prefer to do it via phone.

We update our website with good and bad info on the products as we learn of new info. Anyone is welcome to review the products on our site. If you want everyone to know about the quality of the hood sign in and post it.

We havn't run into a problem yet we can't fix, i'm sure we can work something out.

[F4iMerlin]

Dude?.......Semantics.......

Why would I go to "Roush Issues" if I wanted to know the worth of Sponsor XYZ when there is a "Sponsor XYZ" forum????

Boneheaded? I appreciate that. What is boneheaded is reprimanding or demeaning your PAYING members for voicing their valid concerns in the related area of your site.

Again, sponsors have said they will make the best effort to answer all questions presented to them via this site. If they cannot, or will not, maybe their forums should be locked immediately after the post where you welcome them as a sponsor. If they CAN respond, let them. This should only prove that the mistake or whatever was isolated, and the sponsors DO care.

I really cannot understand why there is so much animosity over this issue. The sponsors screwed up, and it was not the first time, and in a few of the recent cases, they were pretty serious issues. (Read through the posts, I would be absolutely IRRATE to hand over my hard-earned money for such shoddy service and then be given the run-around regardless if it was a "mis-communication" or not) People should know.

I have to say, changing your tune about not posting negative comments, but rather ensuring they are posted in the semantically "correct" area is weak. If that was the case, why was my post deleted instead of moved???

Clearly this is a losing battle for those of us who think as I do, so I will let it go at that, although I would expect a little more backing from a place which I have paid to be a member of.

[DevilSun]

Originally Posted by F4iMerlin

Why would I go to "Roush Issues" if I wanted to know the worth of Sponsor XYZ when there is a "Sponsor XYZ" forum????

Because, those "Sponsor XYZ" areas of the forum are not permanent where as this is. So, if "Sponsor XYZ" didn't renew, all information would be lost as those areas are just cleaned out and re-used. Between that and searching, I'm wondering why all the problems with where this thread is placed. It appears to be getting the attention it deserves but I could be wrong.

[TPSMak]

Originally Posted by Vance

Mike, IMHO, it does not appear that you are in tune with your shop folks. When you aren’t there, you don’t’ know what’s going on. You can thank the slackers you had working that day that didn’t give a crap about me… whom you referred.

Vance,

You have the right to voice your displeasure as this is a public forum. You are right with your statements and in the next couple of weeks there will be some major changes happening.

In all fairness to Bill and Stage3, we've have had issues with Truefiber hoods also....

[Shay]

Originally Posted by F4iMerlin

..........Boneheaded? I appreciate that. What is boneheaded is reprimanding or demeaning your PAYING members for voicing their valid concerns in the related area of your site.

Did I mention anyone by name?

Originally Posted by F4iMerlin

I really cannot understand why there is so much animosity over this issue. The sponsors screwed up, and it was not the first time, and in a few of the recent cases, they were pretty serious issues. (Read through the posts, I would be absolutely IRRATE to hand over my hard-earned money for such shoddy service and then be given the run-around regardless if it was a "mis-communication" or not) People should know.

The only animosity I am gleaning from this thread is coming from the gentleman who started it, and you. If you have an axe to grind with a vendor, you are welcome to post a thread about it. Otherwise I am not sure what you are upset about, this thread is not about you.

You call it semantics, we call it common sense. I would point out that posting in a Sponsor Forum, a question like "Where is my order" or "Empty your PM box" is an entirely different thing than having a serious and unresolved issue with the quality of a part or the services rendered. In both cases it is recommended that a person handle their issues in the most effective way, such as calling the vendor on the phone. As proud I am of this website community, it is not the first place that vendors log onto every day to check messages. Heck, there are some days that even I don't make it online here, and I operate it.

I would liken posting a negative thread about a vendor on here before exhausting all options to resolve with them personally to giving a seller on Ebay negative feedback without ever even letting them know there is a problem first. Nobody is perfect, they deserve a phone call or two before you drop the hammer. If all normal avenues of getting something handled fail, there is a place for posting genuine and valid complaints here.

If you search, I myself have taken advantage of this forum many times.

[Mustanger]

Vance, you jumped the gun a bit early...totally unnecessary as these are quality vendors...not saying you don't have issues but give them a chance BEFORE publicly calling them scumbags! Learn to be not so harsh immediately & life will go a lot better for you...merely calling Bill & explaining the problem & asking him for help would have gotten you a much better experience in my opinion than your public chastising of them...even though I feel Bill will come through for you anyway.

In reality he doesn't NEED a customer like you, if it were me I'd probably take care of you on this issue as it seems valid but I'd ask you to not buy from me again.

There is a time to react like you did but it is several steps down the road from now! I predict you are going to have egg on your face! You are pretty new here on fnsweet & we are not like other websites...you sir are over the line...( I speak only for myself! I have no official standing or association with fnsweet management. Only a supporting member & a bit biased in my beliefs!) Hehe...

take the proper steps to redeem yourself...

[Scarface]

O.K,
I've been in business for over 20 years either as an owner or dealing with customers. You can have 99 customers that are great but you will always gonna have that one guy that felt because he spent a few dollars he's entitled to act like an ass when something goes wrong without letting anyone resolve the issues.

First, as a vendor, Bill doesn't have control or time to inspect every little item that comes into his shop, some items are 100% and so are not, its not his fault but the manufacturer. Bill shipped you a hood that you said is damaged but "unless you are standing in certain light it’s kinda hard to demonstrate such waves", even you had a hard time seeing the waves. I have no doubt the waves are there but because the hood was shipped to bill WRAPPED he can't see it either. He asked you to take pictures because he can have something to show his supplier and he said he was willing to eat the cost, did you even bothered to take pictures to sent to him so he can resolve this issue or do you feel entitled to ruin his business because you spent a few dollars?? You said Bill changed his website within the hour, did you even bothered to read it carefully?? "This manufacture only warranties problems with hood fitment and not hood quality.", Is Bill a manufacturer??, no he's a vendor, yet he told you he's willing to eat the cost because no doubt the manufacturer will not and no doubt he contacted the manufacturer to inform them of a defeact and its on their part to not warranty their products, at the end of the day Bill is guilty of having a bad manufacturer. Have you done anything on your part to resolve this issue besides acting like a a#s??

Second, I've been to Apex a few time and every single time I either have to go around to the bay door or the back, to ask for someone, Mike runs a small business, I don't expect him to be abled to afford a secretary or paying someone looking pretty sitting at the desk all day. Everyone is busy out back or in the garage working on cars. Is the guy on the motorcyle as a#s, no doubt but is every single person in your company a dedicated worker?? I have a few at work that I would like to kick in the nuts for being either lazy or don't cared about customer service, but does that make my company a bad company?? No. Mike also has a second job so if you expect to see him, try either calling first or pm him a time so he can give you the royal treatment next time.

Dude, try resolving your issues first like adults with these people before trying to ruin their livelihoods.

[13 MIKE]

Since were on the subject of boneheads who thought sending a P.M to a sponsor was acceptable. You make it sound like people are sending P.M.'s and then posting the next day. I made a list of 5, or 6 items i wanted a price on, no rush. I waited a week, and then made a nice little post to let them know. I wanted a reply with the prices to refer back to. I thought that was better than calling and asking for a price quote immediatley. So, are you saying, don't send sponsors P.M's for a price quote?

[Roushinator]

Originally Posted by 13 MIKE

So, are you saying, don't send sponsors P.M's for a price quote?

No he is not saying that.

[FNSweetS3]

Each sponsor on this site runs a FULL TIME business. They are not on here all the time.

Yes - you can send them a PM for price quotes and such.... but in honesty the best way to do business is to pick up the phone and call them at their place of business - during business hours.

Fnsweet is probably a very small fraction of their business so in other words they are busy.... give them a call.

PM them a list of what you want..... wait a couple days, if you haven't heard a reply..... call the shop and talk to them directly. When you order.... it is the same thing.... check on your order over the phone.... go straight to the horses mouth.


If after all of this and you are upset that it has been an extended period of time and you still don't have your stuff.... let the Fnsweet staff know.... post up a thread about your experience..... but if you have not had a phone conversation with someone who is high in that companies food chain.... don't post it up.

This is a general statement and not directed at any specific person or event.

[Rangersfan]

We deal with this stuff everyday here too. I can sympathize with both parties. The customer just wants a great part for the money, the vendor just wants good feedback. Things happen sometimes, but please realize that many companies have return policies, and vendors have to go through the hoops too. Patience goes a long way when dealing with shops and vendors. You want to be treated well, so do they.

[Bill H]

Originally Posted by Shay

In both cases it is recommended that a person handle their issues in the most effective way, such as calling the vendor on the phone.

Nobody is perfect, they deserve a phone call or two before you drop the hammer. If all normal avenues of getting something handled fail, there is a place for posting genuine and valid complaints here.

this seems to boil it down to the point. i would think its a courtesy to do followup related to the quality of a personal business transaction in a more direct and offline way.

once you've done that - whether resolved or not - then it seems fair to post the experience...positive or negative. i do think that is one of the benefits of these types of forums.

i dont sense any censorship or reprimanding here.

[/returntomindingmyownbusiness]

[Ethan@S3M]

Still no phone call... Vance do you want to resolve this?