Ongoing Problem with my 427R...

[Wolff]

I posted up a while ago about what I thought was a detonation problem around 3000 rpm. I've been talking with Roush for a few months trying to get this resolved, they have tried three different tunes and the most recent attempt they pulled out timing. I'm sad to say I'm still getting the detonation sound, though I guess it's really not detonation. Last Monday I spoke with the head engineer at Roush and he said if this most recent tune doesn't correct the problem then the noise is some kind of "phantom spark knock" which Roush has not been able to correct or attribute to any significant problem. They've pretty much told me it's just a noise and I shouldn't worry about it. That's not going to happen, especially when I spent so much money on the car. Anything that sounds like detonation can't be good over any length of time. I guess my next step will be to get Roush or Ford to buy back the car or give me a new motor. I wonder how this is all going to pan out since Roush doesn't believe my issue to be a problem. Has anyone ever pursued a claim under the Lemon Law? Sorry to vent on everyone, but this has me very concerned.

[VegasStang]

You're kind of fighting the 800lb gorilla in the room. But Good Luck!

[Shay]

Search on google about the lemon law. There are a lot of resources. Each state is different about how they handle it.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by Wolff

I posted up a while ago about what I thought was a detonation problem around 3000 rpm. I've been talking with Roush for a few months trying to get this resolved, they have tried three different tunes and the most recent attempt they pulled out timing. I'm sad to say I'm still getting the detonation sound, though I guess it's really not detonation. Last Monday I spoke with the head engineer at Roush and he said if this most recent tune doesn't correct the problem then the noise is some kind of "phantom spark knock" which Roush has not been able to correct or attribute to any significant problem. They've pretty much told me it's just a noise and I shouldn't worry about it. That's not going to happen, especially when I spent so much money on the car. Anything that sounds like detonation can't be good over any length of time. I guess my next step will be to get Roush or Ford to buy back the car or give me a new motor. I wonder how this is all going to pan out since Roush doesn't believe my issue to be a problem. Has anyone ever pursued a claim under the Lemon Law? Sorry to vent on everyone, but this has me very concerned.

[CrazyHorse]

Phantom spark knock........right. See if you have a case in your state. Document everything and get a lawyer if you do. Also get plenty of material to explain the danger of detonation on an s/c'd auto.

Post up the lemon law in your state so we know the details.

The dealer is not going to want your car back. They would get killed on resale.

[wldhrse]

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

Document everything and get a lawyer if you do.

And most importantly...get a lawyer that specializes in this sort of thing. When a previous dealer wrecked my Mach 1 and refused to fix it correctly, I ultimately had to get a lawyer and the dealer already knew him well. This guy is nationally known and supposedly one of the best in the country.

Check out their website: www.ohiolemonlaw.com

Even though it's Ohio, they can help in other states.

[Rangersfan]

Have you actually had this on a Dyno or data-logged a run to see if you can replicate the issue? Maybe it's not a tune issue, but an unknown mechanical cause.

[retakcs8]

u think it's detonation and the ultimate question is "Is it really detonation?" as far a Lemon Law, I thought somebody has to actually try and fix the car at least 3 times for the same problem before you can invoke Lemon Law provisions. It could be time for you to start taking the car to an authorized roush repair shop so you have everything on paper. solid documentation will only help your cause. strictly my opinion.

[Wolff]

Thanks for the feedback guys. To answer a few of your questions...
- I have had the car dynoed and logged. It was running 13:1 AFR just around 3000rpm where I'm hearing the denonation sound. So, I tought for sure this was a detonation issue.
- ROush first told me the tune was correct and that some detonation was normal. I pressed on with them, and Roush has since attempted 2 alternate tunes to the PCM with no change.
- I'm looking for a local lawyer that handels these type of issues.

[gpfordjoe]

Wolf I Had Talked With You Earlier .have You Ever Taken One Of Techs For A Ride At The Dealer Or Service Area That Works On Your Car And Have They Verified Whats Happening ?also Like I Said I Have Driven A Million Of These Cars All Of Them Have Some Ping At Some Point Its Design Of The Ctiming And Cams Sorry Just The Way It Works

[Rangersfan]

If you are seeing 13.1 at part throttle, then that is rich, but if you're seeing 13.1 under load, then that is way lean. This is why I dumped the Roush tune, every one we've seen on our dyno either has way too much timing under load, or they are pig rich. My suggestion is to get a custum tune done on their dime.

[Wolff]

I have had the tech at the dealership in the car to show the problem and they said it was detonation. I have had 2 other Ford mechanics listen to the sound and they both thought it was detonation...one told me to stop driving the car because it was so bad. Since that time the problem has proven not to be detonation...according to Roush it's more like piston slap. I've driven another 427 and it doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as mine. From 2700 to 3000 rpm under load, mine sounds like that 50 year old grocery cart you find at a small town mom & pop grocery store. You know the one, it has all 4 wheels flopping around all over the place as you push it through the aisles. There's no way that can be normal, It's defininitely not acceptable to me especially for a $47,000 vehicle. If Roush or Ford won't replace the short block I'll do everything possible to dump the car. Hopefully, I won't take too much of a bath on it.

[VegasStang]

What happens if you simply drive it hard and let the motor blow? You have already done everything you can document your problem so if it goes bad how can it be your fault? Good Luck...

[retakcs8]

yea, force the issue. you'll probably wont get anything done until you get an actual failure. sorry about the mess/issues you're having

[Wolff]

I've toyed with the idea of driving it as hard as possible hoping that will magnify the problem and maybe even blow the motor, but there are two concerns I have with that. One, It's only a weekend driver (if that), so I'm not driving it much. Two, when I do get it out...and if I drive it hard...with my luck the car will hold together until the warranty is done and then the motor will blow. As much as I drive it, the car will only have about 9K on it before the warranty is done. Bottom line, if nothing is done to fix the car, I'm not going to feel comforatble or enjoy driving it, so I might as well get ride of it. If I can get a GT500 for sticker maybe I'll go that route and do some mild mods to it. It doesn't take much to get another 150hp out of the GT500.

[vista blue]

I'd just trade it in on a new one,you might as well get rid of it while it's running.

[06Roush_st_3]

If the problem is detonation or a piston slap you would think it would blow fairly fast. The main issue with this is (I was told) Ford can see the max RPM and other things in the PCM. So if it blows, and you were too hard on it, then Ford will know and void the warranty anyway. Since I have raced my car 4 times now on a road track, and a few drag strip runs, and pretty figure I have no warranty anyway.

I am sorry you are having issues. To me it doesn't sound like a Roush issue as much as Ford issue. Where do you live?

[Wolff]

I live in Maryland...I spoke with the head designer at Roush last night and he is driving 10 hours with one of his techs to my house next week to see the car in person. Even though this issue really bothers me I have to give some credit to Roush, so far they haven't blown me off and they are trying to keep me happy. We'll see how their visit goes, hopefully they can figure it out.

[sally4ponies]

Sorry for your trouble. Hopefully you'll get some answer when the Roush guys pay you a visit. Keep us posted!!

[VegasStang]

Wow I can't believe they are coming to your house. Can't ask for much better service than that. Good Luck and keep us posted.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Wolff

I live in Maryland...I spoke with the head designer at Roush last night and he is driving 10 hours with one of his techs to my house next week to see the car in person. Even though this issue really bothers me I have to give some credit to Roush, so far they haven't blown me off and they are trying to keep me happy. We'll see how their visit goes, hopefully they can figure it out.

Now that's service!